CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: sapple89 on October 02, 2012, 07:51:21 AM
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I need to buy something for my pops. 1969 numbers matching z/28 on a shoe string budget of 50k.
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It will all depend on what condition you need the car, a driver or something fully restored. Lots of nice cars out in the market place right now but have varying degrees of restoration. If you are looking for numbers matching, fully restored, nice color combination and with original documentation then I don't think $50K will do it. If you find a car somewhat restored and numbers matching with no documentation then yes lots of stuff out there. Have you looked on E-Bay, Cars on Line, Team Camaro, just to name a few.
Buy nothing until you have the car inspected by someone who knows these vehicles like Jerry MacNeish. You can also post pics of the car, trim tag and stampings on this site and others to soloist feedback and be careful lots of fake cars for sale with bogus trim tags etc.
Best of luck in your hunt.
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If you wait on the right car you should be able to find a good numbers 69 Z for 50k. It might not have the 837 alt or a 480 dist or correct detailing but you should be able to get there... bide your time and don't fall in love with anything or you WILL get taken!
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I agree with restore-z28. 50 probably won,t get you a restored documented car. There was a black X77 at Charlotte 2 weeks ago and he wanted 65 and did not have enough doc,s to convince me. I also agree that there are more fakes out there than real cars so buyer beware. The mid year vette saying was if you don,t have all the doc,s assume it is fake and pay accordingly if you like it.
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They are out there, just look hard.
Here's a nice 68 RS/Z for $35K - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Camaro-Z-28-rally-Sport-/280977463074?pt
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Wow…If you don’t buy it and quick, someone else will. Best of all, look at the spare change you’ll have for the inevitable odds & ends necessary to make the car complete.
Makes me wish I had an extra 35 lying around... :)
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They are out there, just look hard.
Here's a nice 68 RS/Z for $35K - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Camaro-Z-28-rally-Sport-/280977463074?pt
Dang, that is a nice car for the $$$$, especially being an RS. Had not seen that one!
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Something or a Z-28? Not sure how old pops is but a solid lifter, cluched, High winding, lifter adjustment loving car might not be the ticket FOR HIM.
A nice RS/SS automacic convertable with A/C would have been the ticket for my pops (and mom). Is this car going to be handed down?
Sorry for your "problems", wish I had them.
Good luck,
VT
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There are 5 on eBay right now in the 50K price range
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Wow…If you don’t buy it and quick, someone else will. Best of all, look at the spare change you’ll have for the inevitable odds & ends necessary to make the car complete.
Makes me wish I had an extra 35 lying around... :)
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I'm sorry but I can't see 35K for a restamp block and original transmission gone.
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I don’t think Kurt would have mentioned this car unless it’s already been documented & is legit. And, even though the seller states the engine has been decked I would certainly like a closer peak. I’ve blown his pic as much as I can and the broach marks look good. But let’s say it was decked by the factory…nothing wrong with that.
As for the transmission; its period correct & KIM the author is looking for something within his budget. Any cream puff Z is going to be about 75 to 95K (perhaps even north of that).
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Wow…If you don’t buy it and quick, someone else will. Best of all, look at the spare change you’ll have for the inevitable odds & ends necessary to make the car complete.
Makes me wish I had an extra 35 lying around... :)
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I'm sorry but I can't see 35K for a restamp block and original transmission gone.
Daniel, you are of course 100% correct about the eng/trans. but believe what some of us or at least what I was referring to is the overall cost to get a camaro to what appears that level, plus a RS version (+20%) to boot. Has some nice options and if it had all the orig. stuff like dist., alt. starter, DF wheels, etc.etc.... even better yet. :)
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Shoe string budget of 50K, I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd.
I would look for a true survivor, maybe not top shelf but still original. Maybe something that needs a little TLC but nothing major. Good color if possible but original paint. If I couldn't find that then I would step down to a well maintained/repaired car that has just been kept as original as possible. Too many people get carried away in restorations and over do it, doing so many things wrong it is tough to really tell the original condition of things, essentially needing a complete redo to make it right. Next on the list would be a car complete needing restoration but with MINIMAL metal work required. Last on the list would be a car someone took apart and don't knwo what to do with now or doesn't have the skills/fundage to get it done.
I agree with VT, a Z might not be the best choice for dear old Dad, but if you wanted to buy me one it would be perfect for me and I'm a Dad.
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Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut. After all who am I to say what wrong or right especially for someone else. Kurt would you please delete all my post from this thread?
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Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut. After all who am I to say what wrong or right especially for someone else. Kurt would you please delete all my post from this thread?
Who are you? Someone with good practical knowledge from years of being aroudn these things and studying what you see. I think the post should stay.
To a degree every forum is a collection of experiences and YES opinions, some right some wrong but express properly there is a place for all of them. I will agree this forum is based a lot more in fact and research then most.
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Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut. After all who am I to say what wrong or right especially for someone else. Kurt would you please delete all my post from this thread?
Who are you? Someone with good practical knowledge from years of being aroudn these things and studying what you see. I think the post should stay.
To a degree every forum is a collection of experiences and YES opinions, some right some wrong but express properly there is a place for all of them. I will agree this forum is based a lot more in fact and research then most.
X2 Daniel, this was posted on General Discussion and sapple89 is looking for an open-ended opinion.
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Yes, thats exactly what I was looking for. I ended up making a deal for that restamped z. Now i just need someone in columbus ohio to inspect it.
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Quote from the seller; The engine block had to be decked because of a mechanical issue and the engine code and vin were re-stamped on the block just as it came from the factory.
So what’s the deal with this engine guys? The sellers quote states the engine was re-stamped after the fact…re-stamped as it came from the factory. I had assumed this car was legit and I’m beginning to think otherwise. Is it or is it not a re-stamped block from the factory? Anything about this car in CRG’s archives’? If not, I'll have to side with Daniel on this one...
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The person states "as it came from the factory", not that the factory restamped it. Since when did the factory stamp a block, then deck and restamp it if it had issues? I don't infer from his statement the seller is implying the factory performed the procedure.
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Since when did the factory stamp a block, then deck and restamp it if it had issues?
I have two examples in my files of e-pads ground and re-stamped from the factory. Both verified here…
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Since when did the factory stamp a block, then deck and restamp it if it had issues?
I have two examples in my files of e-pads ground and re-stamped from the factory. Both verified here…
Reground and restamped or decked and restamped? The seller says his block was decked. I still don't think the seller is trying to convey the factory performed the decking and restamping procedure. I suppose prospective buyers would pick up the phone and speak to him directly to clarify his meaning if it's ambiguous to them. Plenty of blocks and parts out there with restamps that are not done with fraudulent intentions. And there are those that are meant for that purpose of course.
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A restamp is a restamp. If I have follow a few things correctly then a factory restamp is a ground off incorrect stamp and restamped not a DECK and restamp, just the pad is ground off. Not a favorable situation but if verified/documented it is what it is. As far as I decked it and stamp it back exactly as it was..............................right. Only with time stamped photography (which can be faked to a degree) would I even begin to buy that line. "Well why would I lie?" about 10,000 reasons. Not saying the seller isn't telling the truth, just cant be 100% sure, much less the next guy and the next, "well the guy I bought it from said he stamped it back exactly". Unfornately too much money riding on it to take a chance. If you like a car and like a price then buy it, if you are paying a premium for things like options, trim levels and number then verify them BEYOND ANY question.
Kinda like an engine or tranny you cant see work/check the vituals/inspect, just assume it's a core and pay accordingly.
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Fair enough. Maybe I have just been reading all the wrong threads because this is the first time in the ~2yrs I’ve been on this site that anyone has referred to decking an engine as anything other than altering its pad. Thanks for learnin me…
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Quote from the seller; The engine block had to be decked because of a mechanical issue and the engine code and vin were re-stamped on the block just as it came from the factory.
So what’s the deal with this engine guys? The sellers quote states the engine was re-stamped after the fact…re-stamped as it came from the factory. I had assumed this car was legit and I’m beginning to think otherwise. Is it or is it not a re-stamped block from the factory? Anything about this car in CRG’s archives’? If not, I'll have to side with Daniel on this one...
Here is how I interpreted it after reading it once....
The engine block had to be decked because of a mechanical issue... as it states to fix a problem. I don't believe it means at the factory because there is no way for us to know what happened back then to this block, if anything.
...and the engine code and vin were re-stamped on the block just as it came from the factory this clearly tells me the stamps are redone to be what the factory fonts looked like and correct codes. I admire the seller for being up front with this info. Gents; IMHO think too much is being read into this description.
Personally if I had $50K to spend and I wanted a Z but could not afford the high price of one with the original engine (and tranny) and it had a correct period dated block and other parts and properly restamped and the car itself was real, then I would pay the lower fair price for that. To me, it's not to cheat the nexy guy because I don't resell my cars and if I did I would make it clear the block was restored including the stamps because I know the legal ramifications that can happen otherwise. Why would I accept a restamped? We all have our own reasons but for me It would be my attempt to own a piece of history restored a close to as it existed back then (may as roll in the overspray, dated plug wires, glass hose clamps...etc). That's just me.
Mike
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Blocks weren't "re-decked" at the factory. A block could only go through the deck broach machine once - if the deck broach revealed a problem in the casting (porosity, etc.), the block was scrapped. Occasionally there was an error in the machine code stamping on the pad or engines originally built for one suffix usage were converted to another suffix usage (usually just a distributor or exhaust manifold change), and the original stamp was "ground-out" and re-stamped, but that didn't happen very often.
Photo below shows a typical engine plant "grindout" and restamp; it was done with a hand-held 3" air-powered grinding wheel, only on the end of the pad where the machine code was stamped.
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I'm sorry but I can't see 35K for a restamp block and original transmission gone.
I agree with you Daniel! This has always been my opinion on re-stamps & its not about to change now just because this car happens to be a Z. I assumed there were some sort of provisions with this car but obviously that wasn't the case.
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Blocks weren't "re-decked" at the factory. A block could only go through the deck broach machine once - if the deck broach revealed a problem in the casting (porosity, etc.), the block was scrapped. Occasionally there was an error in the machine code stamping on the pad or engines originally built for one suffix usage were converted to another suffix usage (usually just a distributor or exhaust manifold change), and the original stamp was "ground-out" and re-stamped, but that didn't happen very often.
Photo below shows a typical engine plant "grindout" and restamp; it was done with a hand-held 3" air-powered grinding wheel, only on the end of the pad where the machine code was stamped.
John- as usual your explanation and tact is second to none. Above all you manage to get your point across w/o the risk of sounding degrading or condescending. Much appreciated!
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'decking' by a machine shop (typically during an engine rebuild) is done predominantly for two reasons: 1) to reduce deck height (and increase compression, or 2) to 'clean up' the head-mating surface, ie. make it flatter/more consistent to reduce/eliminate possibility of a head gasket issue. For 'racing purposes', decking is also sometimes used to 'true' the deck or deck height from end to end or inside to outside.