CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: big iron on September 05, 2008, 03:54:34 PM
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While doing a search, found a reply from John Z. that indicated that there was no part # on the stick only Full & Add marks, "Engine Oil M ". The finish was ( Noblecoating) and the handle has a yel. plastic insert.Would this description hold true for the 67 BB L78 ?
The reason I ask, is that the 69 GM parts book shows a different length between the Full & Add marks between the 67 & 68, 69 and a shorter distance between these marks and the rubber insert on the handle.
Does this difference mean there is also a difference in the tube design Or length ?
I notice that there are reproductions (excuse the word) of the 68,69 tubes but haven't seen one for the 67. Is this an indication that there is a difference in the 67 tube?
The 69 parts book has a specific part # for the 67 dipstick (3902399) and tube (3899640). Does anyone have a 67,68 parts book that could verify?
Just confused. ???
Bob C
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Update,
Did a little more research between the 69 GM Parts Book and all 3 (67,68,69) assembly manuals (AIM or is that AM) and here is the following results.
67 AIM page 287 L35 A4 Dipstick 3925520 Purple insert.
Tube 3899640
68,69 AIM page 279 L35 A4 Dipstick 3925599 Yel. insert.
Tube 3928901
All numbers confirmed in 69 GM Parts Book (PB).
The 69 PB shows only one pan being used (camaro 3958657) so I conclude that the 67 dipstick is somewhat shorter than the 68, 69. I also have to conclude that the L78 uses the same dipstick & tube as the 67 L35.
Can anyone verify these results with an original 67 .
Are these dipsticks and tubes correct for judging?
Bob C
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Bob
1.516 Gauge assy. - Tube - Tube assy. - Seal - Cap assy. - Boot - Grommet - Plug - Ring, Oil Level
67 P&A
67 Camaro (8 cyl)..................3896912
68 P&A
67 Camaro (8 cyl)...................3902399
68 Camaro, Chevelle (396)......3925599
68 Camaro, Chevelle (396)...Tube Assy....3928901
Your 3925520 was substituted with 3959158 10/01
Steve
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Steve,
Could you verify the following:
67 P&A 1.516 gauge
65-66 Pass 396,427
66-67 Chevelle, Camaro 396 3925520 A measurement 17 13/32 B measurement 18 1/2
67 P&A 1.516 tube
What does your 67 P&A specify for a 67 Camaro 396 ? The following is what my 69 P&A shows:
65-66 Pass, Chevelle 396,427 3870324
67 Pass, Chevelle 396/427 exc. H/Per. 3899640
3925520 was substituted with 3959158, is that Oct, 2001?
All your 68 #'s are the same in my 69 P&A.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Bob C
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Bob
67 P&A 1.516 gauge I can only say that it apppears that this part number is for the gauge only. There are other descriptions provided for other vehicles and years that say "single piece" and "two piece" for instance. The later example I believe would justify the "assy" designation and thus why we see it in the header description.
66-67 Chevelle, Camaro 396 3925520 A measurement 17 13/32 B measurement 18 1/2 The P&A does not provide any measurements for this particular part.
67 P&A 1.516 tube The 67 P&A does provide a 6 cyl and an 8 cyl part number [3876870 Tube, gauge (curved)] however it does not apply to the 396.
65-66 Pass, Chevelle 396,427 3870324 This number is shown for the 65-66 Chevelle (396) Tube assy., gauge
67 Chevelle (396) (exc. H/Per.) 3899640 Tube assy., gauge This is what is in the 67 P&A.
Steve
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For reference, '67 Corvette 427's used the following:
'65 - '67 Early: 3862732 tube, 3860316 dipstick
'67 Late: 3870324 tube, 3925520 dipstick (23-13/64" to full, 24" to add)
The above is from the Assembly Manual, not the P&A30B, so they're production numbers.
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Steve,
So,let's take this one step at a time.
We have verification in both the 67,69 P&A of the following: Gauge 3925520 was used in the 66-67 Chevelle, Camaro 396 with A&B measurement's of 17 13/32 & 18 1/2 (not verified).
We have verification in the 67,68,69 AIM (Production #) of the following: Gauge 3925520 was used in the 67 Camaro L35 with a Purple insert.
John Z, can the same production #"s that are used in AIM be used in the P&A (in this case 3925520)? Do you have a 67L Corvette 3925520 dipstick that you could measure from the full & add marks to the rubber insert (where the tube rests against)?
Now we have to establish what oil pan was used on the 67,68 69"s before we move on to the tube. This should verify if the 3925520 w/purple insert was correct for the 67 L78.
Steve, What does your 67,68 P&A"s show? My 69 P&A (group 1.426) shows 65-69 Chevy, Chevelle,Camaro 396.... 3958657. I think is correct because the sub-frames were basically the same except for the 67E front rails.
If the pans are the same, then the 67 tubes 3899640 for the L35 & L78 should be the same. It should also establish that the gauge 3925599 w/ yel. insert and tube 3928901 are correct for the 68.69"s BB"s.
Bob C
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Steve, What does your 67,68 P&A"s show? My 69 P&A (group 1.426) shows 65-69 Chevy, Chevelle,Camaro 396.... 3958657.
The 3958657 number is not listed in this group number. The only Camaro 8 cylinder given is for the 67 Camaro (327, 350) and the part number is 3912396. The 67 Chevelle (396) part number is 3907137. The Camaro part number 3912396 was substituted with 3937914 in May 1969. 3937914 was substituted with 3961399 in January 1970. The Chevelle part number 3907137 was substituted with 3929257 in January 1968. 3929257 was substituted with 3958657 in July 1969. 3958657 was substituted with 3985999 in May 1970.
Steve
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The 68 P&A shows the following:
67 Camaro (396)....................3910240 substituted with 3929258 July 1968 then 3958658 in May of 69 then 3974328 in March 70.
68 Camaro, Chevelle (396).......3929257 substituted with 3958657 July 1969 then 3985999 in May 70.
Steve
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Steve,
Looks like the original 67 Chevelle pan 3907137 verified buy the 68 P&A (68 Camaro, Chevelle 396..3929257 part# sub.) and again verified buy the 69 P&A (65-69 Chevy, Chevelle, Camaro 396..3958657 part# sub.) shows that the same pan was used on all 67,68,69 Camaro BB's, except for the 69 HD 6qt pan 3879633.
I think we can now assume that dipstick 3925520 w/purple tip is correct for the 67 L35 & L78. The 67 dipstick should look like the 68,69 except shorter & w/purple tip.
The tube 3899640 is correct for the 67 L35 & L78. I know the 67& 69 P&A's say (exc. H/Per) but there are no part numbers to support any other 67 dipstick & tube combination. That would change in 68,69 with the addition of AC for BB's.
Because the 68,69 dipstick 3925599 w/yel tip did not have the part # on it, as John Z has indicated, I believe the 67 3925520 did not have one ether. GM would probably use the same dies on the 67 and the 68,69 stick but make the 68,69 longer and change to the yel. tip.
Any questions?
Bob C[/b]
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John Z, can the same production #"s that are used in AIM be used in the P&A (in this case 3925520)? Do you have a 67L Corvette 3925520 dipstick that you could measure from the full & add marks to the rubber insert (where the tube rests against)?
Yes, the Service part can have the same number as the production-line part, although that's not always the case. The dimensions of the 3925520 dipstick are in my earlier post above, and it had a pink/salmon plastic tip.
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John Z,
Looking at my AIM 67 Corvette & 67 Camaro books they do indeed show that the production number 3925520 (stick) & 3870324 (tube) was used on both models.
The 67 Camaro AIM shows 3925520 (stick) w/purple tip & 3870324(tube)..........(these are also the correct service numbers).
The 67 Corvette AIM shows 3925520 (stick) w/???? (salmon) tip & 3870324 (tube)...... (are these also the correct service numbers)???????
It is strange that to different model production facilities would have the same production numbers with two different color tips.
Do you have a Corvette P&A that you could see if the stick service number is the same as production number?
I thought I had the 67 BB stick and tube figured out but if the Corvette and the Camaro have the same stick with two different colors I will have to re-think my conclusion.
Thanks,
Bob C
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The service replacements in the Corvette P&A30B are different than the production parts - the stick is 3981088, which must be used with 3981089 tube as a set. There is no service replacement stick that works with the original 3862732 (early) or 3870324 (late) tube.
The NCRS Judging Guide notes that the Corvette tube extends approximately 1-1/2" above the point where the mounting bracket is welded to the tube, and the tube used on passenger cars extends about 3-1/2" above the bracket (not correct for Corvettes).
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If anyone wants to do a study.
I have saved quite a few of these over the years. ;)
(http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/111/111196/folders/255127/2345193dipsticks.JPG)
From what I mostly remember - for BB cars - the 67's had a salmon tip, 69 green, and 70 was yellow.
think 68 was the same as 67, but not sure.
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Correction- just checked some of the untouched blocks here.
I do have a late 69(June 10th) 396/325 - with a yellow tip 6041 stick
(http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/111/111196/folders/255127/2345262IMG3050.JPG)