CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: william on February 09, 2023, 12:39:22 AM

Title: VIN tag problem
Post by: william on February 09, 2023, 12:39:22 AM
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-132/

124379N612301

VIN tag only, sold on eBay September, 2001.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: rocco376 on February 09, 2023, 12:48:41 AM
I wonder if there are any other cars with as much fraud perpetrated as the stuff that goes on with 1969 Z28's.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: Z282NV on February 09, 2023, 03:09:34 AM
It is amazing the information and data you have collected
William. You are a credit to this hobby.  Is there a way to report this to BaT without posting it on line? If so, maybe BaT would pull the auction???
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: 67conv6cyl on February 09, 2023, 01:07:52 PM
I would say, nobody should ever buy a 1969 camaro without checking with William first!
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: rocco376 on February 09, 2023, 03:15:35 PM
It looks like the hard questions are already being asked on the auction.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: camaronut on February 09, 2023, 06:42:30 PM
The seller showed a picture of the hidden VIN from top the cowl - it matches.  He's gonna post it .
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: BillOhio on February 09, 2023, 06:51:24 PM
My car is about a month behind this one.  The pictures I have of mine are when the factory glue  was smeared over the stamp and hard to compare.   It would be interesting to see the back of the cowl.  Was there a tag or body with the vin tag?   Block looks to be a restamp and the Chinese booster makes me wonder what else is wrong.  Oh the upside down air cleaner seal also
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 09, 2023, 08:04:24 PM
I see the new pic of the cowl VIN stamp. Curious as to how this car came together. With todays craftsman anything is possible to recreate an expensive muscle car. I agree on the block having a re-stamp. Upside down seals are common on real Z cars and the fakes though.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: boomer632 on February 09, 2023, 08:45:03 PM
I see the new pic of the cowl VIN stamp. Curious as to how this car came together. With todays craftsman anything is possible to recreate an expensive muscle car. I agree on the block having a re-stamp. Upside down seals are common on real Z cars and the fakes though.

Why do you guys think engine stamp is a re-stamp?
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: william on February 09, 2023, 09:01:22 PM
Because it does not compare with other, known original V0124DZ stampings.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: 67conv6cyl on February 09, 2023, 10:02:44 PM
All you have to do is cut both hidden vin section out of trashed parts car and weld it in both areas on car where hidden vins are, that’s been done over and over. Very common when people change cowl sections on the actual car that a certain vin came from originally. You also often see vins and trim tags for sale with metal sections from a beyond repair car.

The only thing I see that makes it harder and harder to do that is people like William!
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: GMAD_Van Nuys on February 09, 2023, 10:09:50 PM
The posting from camaro.net on Sept. 5, 2001 says that the upper dash panel was for sale on eBay, which included the VIN tag:

https://www.camaros.net/threads/69-camaro-vin-tag-for-sale-on-ebay.25306/
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: camaronut on February 10, 2023, 01:30:22 AM
This is giving me a headache.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: AFONEFE on February 10, 2023, 01:38:43 AM
All you have to do is cut both hidden vin section out of trashed parts car and weld it in both areas on car where hidden vins are, that’s been done over and over. Very common when people change cowl sections on the actual car that a certain vin came from originally. You also often see vins and trim tags for sale with metal sections from a beyond repair car.

The only thing I see that makes it harder and harder to do that is people like William!
You are correct.  I have been on three different inspections with JM and seen exactly what you have described.  They can smooth out the wield from the top of hidden VIN from but you can clearly see the patch and wield from the backside.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: KurtS on February 10, 2023, 01:40:30 AM
There is a possibility the car is real.  The guy sold the car and the buyer didn't get the VIN tag and didn't come back for it. He then listed the VIN on ebay in 2001. I don't know how that auction ended, but it the buyer may have returned for it....  needs to be checked over!
Tag and partial look OK. Pad is a nasty restamp.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: BillOhio on February 10, 2023, 01:42:27 AM
Kurt was it a whole car or shell? Maybe a shell explains the leaning look
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: KurtS on February 10, 2023, 01:44:31 AM
I only know what the seller posted.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: Z282NV on February 10, 2023, 02:07:36 PM
If the VIN and trim tag are real for a 2D assembly time frame, the VIN of this Camaro is over 5000 cars away from the last VIN number on CRG database for February 1969. Shouldn't this be a March 1969 Camaro?
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: william on February 10, 2023, 03:45:31 PM
N612301 was final-assembled on or about March 11, 1969.

Release date on the tag is not a reliable indicator of exactly when a Norwood car was built. 37 ZL-1 Camaros had 02D tags, none of them were built in February.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: Z282NV on February 10, 2023, 04:09:37 PM
N612301 was final-assembled on or about March 11, 1969.

Release date on the tag is not a reliable indicator of exactly when a Norwood car was built. 37 ZL-1 Camaros had 02D tags, none of them were built in February.

Thanks for clearing that up William.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: 67conv6cyl on February 10, 2023, 10:00:30 PM
What I find truly amazing is….everyone knows that today there are more fake  Z’s then they probably built originally…..one of the most cloned cars on the planet and even the clones that are admitted clones bring good sale prices.

Anybody that has one that’s real has gotta feel good knowing how desirable their car is…..after all not to many people cone cars that aren’t desirable to the masses.
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: BillOhio on February 14, 2023, 01:39:49 AM
The seller posted the back side of the cowl stamp and looks like 2 sets of numbers
Title: Re: VIN tag problem
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 14, 2023, 03:42:49 AM
I think a mirror was used so it shows the numbers from the underside. *But if someone was willing to remove tags, would they remove the upper section of the firewall and graft that in? many ways to skin cat it seems