CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: mechandesign on June 08, 2020, 12:12:39 PM
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I'm sure this question had been asked but, i can't seem to find it. Can someone please tell the the brand and paint code to black out the tail pan on my 69 s/s. Thank you in advance
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I see you are new here. Exactly what gloss level black paint was used for the rocker panel and BB rear body panel blackout has been the subject of debate for as long as I can recall. Original cars have been seen with a near flat finish, all percentages of 'semi-gloss' and even a few with a near full-gloss finish. Factory paint charts make no mention of it; sales literature simply refers to it as 'black'.
After decades of spirited discussion, people that worked at the Norwood assembly plant have concluded that it is probably the same black lacquer used for striping. What made it different is it was applied after the body was painted and polished. The blackout areas were not polished; lacquer will dry to a smooth but dull finish. Exactly how dull was dependent on atmospheric conditions. A car painted in January may look different than one painted in June.
So it is up to you. When I had this done, I examined several excellent original paint cars. All were glossy enough to be reflective.
Neither flat nor full-gloss is considered correct.
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That's probably the best summed up conclusion I've read since I've been reading these posts. Thanks William....Joe
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I agree, an excellent summary of the 'blackout' paint and IMO very accurate in his description of the 'variances'...
I would suggest that William's words below should be used to update any 'blackout descriptions for this site...
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Thank you for the input guys. I was told it was SEM39141 trim black but, I wasn't sure as I couldn't find anything on the blackout as you all mention.
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Thank you for the input guys. I was told it was SEM39141 trim black but, I wasn't sure as I couldn't find anything on the blackout as you all mention.
You could use SEM, which is satin. I prefer to use catalyzed paint and stock numerous kinds of satin black (or any other gloss level) depending on application. If your car is a trailer queen, or you rarely drive your car, SEM will do.
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After decades of spirited discussion, people that worked at the Norwood assembly plant have concluded that it is probably the same black lacquer used for striping.
I don't think this part is correct. The tailpanel was painted with the same black that the rockers were painted. It was non-glossy and a different tap from the gloss black. Even though it's the same paint, the rockers were cooler in the oven than the tailpanel.
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Disagree.
21k mile original paint Camaro SS. I have 4 photos of other original paint cars that were near full gloss. When my Z/28 was done in the '80s, I checked out two original paint '69 Z/28-RS. Rockers were just as glossy as the photo.
As I stated, lots of opinions. Original paint doesn't lie.
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After decades of spirited discussion, people that worked at the Norwood assembly plant have concluded that it is probably the same black lacquer used for striping.
I don't think this part is correct. The tailpanel was painted with the same black that the rockers were painted. It was non-glossy and a different tap from the gloss black. Even though it's the same paint, the rockers were cooler in the oven than the tailpanel.
Agreed. Not the same black - at least for 67 and 68. Can’t say the same with certainty for 69. I have no doubt - based on certain unmentionable information.
The topic will be argued about forever. But it’s not the same color as stripes.
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If it were different, it would be listed in the Dupont exterior color paint charts. It isn't. The striping chart lists code 99L for black, same code listed as 'S.G.' on the interior color chart. There is this note at the bottom of the interior color chart:
NOTE: Unpolished Lucite will generally produce a gloss comparable to original interior semi-gloss finishes. If lower gloss is required use up to 1/2 oz. flattening compound to a pint of unreduced color.
From a guy who worked there:
Cars built in the summer= glossy
Cars built in the winter = Less glossy
Spring and Fall=split the gloss %
Here's a low mile original paint '68 Camaro SS. Virtually same gloss as the spoiler. Ever see an SS or Z/28 with semi-gloss stripes?
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Bill will discuss with you off-line later, probably this evening.
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It had been discussed previously that there were 2 vats of black. One to be used for striping & the other vat for everything else...Joe
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I wonder if Chevelle guys have this same discussion on 67 SS models?
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I wonder if Chevelle guys have this same discussion on 67 SS models?
Probably 66,67,68,& 69 Chevelles. Impalas had the same black out for a few years also. El Camino SS 68 & 69 at least...Joe
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I wonder if Chevelle guys have this same discussion on 67 SS models?
Yes they do.
I have seen several original paint 67 SS 396 Chevelles.
Dale M. does not have the paint code.
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Here is Dave Beem's Original paint Yenko - 01B X66. It's got a good bit of gloss...
The paint on Daves car is in incredible original shape... it was never cut hard if at all, I don't think there is any checking and has beautiful lacquer texture, you can see the grind marks in the lead seams around the trim and some circular sanding marks around the seams as well if you get it in just the right light... just incredible.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fxIjpxHCWHXbdD37YklmtqaGap5vOjAkOImUVO30zC1RFreY1Lq-yNxpk2WVcPnt71UsOLTd23W3BpORIq8jiZX4NeaxIaZjfP36Vew9sPX8nsZeA4j074GRmWS_CyFZkEGA3dnG6qcOnYJE3M2muduw=w1240-h828-no?authuser=0)
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Would be pretty unusual to have orange peel that bad on the top of that car. Should have been sanded out or flowed out in the reflow oven. Maybe bad quality control that hour or ovens weren’t working right?
Color System: The bodies were sequenced to "batch-paint" by color as much as the build schedule allowed, to minimize the waste of thinner required to clear paint guns between colors. The interior was masked off, the body exterior was tacked-off, and it then entered the main color booth, where it got three coats of acrylic lacquer, sprayed automatically with vertical and horizontal reciprocating spray guns, with a 3-minute "flash" between coats, followed by a 10-minute bake at 200F to "skin" the surface prior to sanding. In the next stage, any surface defects were power- and hand-wet-sanded with mineral spirits, then wiped off prior to entering the final "reflow" oven. This bake lasted 30 minutes at 275F, where the lacquer surface softened and "re-flowed" to a uniform gloss.
People can believe what they want. I am done discussing. I know what I know based on what I have seen for 67 and 68. Can’t say with as much certainty for 69. Over and out.
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Call it whatever you like... here is the original uncut paint in extreme detail.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cwoFLAhURGU4QdGzvdrnEkCwLpu1iqmL-kqC17jwPdNRtmQJ1DhlViM8cMZEssCOel70SXSHZWQdhMbVzMRPrNbMEUo-hxPu1LcjURlrSknumtf6Ty5_a2TirDf9FiENO4Za0WeTipBaIjP3XC9uT-pg=w1240-h828-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d_AU6d2dATzNFtHURyqaOWG1MI4EGJpfxmh7mAO7nHFCqqlxa7DEz3oJaoSW57zEFUuxkKT8QiLgYF-usRa-umUMe35LwN0dUmI4GirI6z2xSUEw_q5py1z3gpCFD6azkQG91SvJBzQXF2iXXKF0fOIA=w1240-h828-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dW7jKX_cNIdjOrnhinEv7GQcIjHUpEFpxwSQrsjZYLnqa2kI5Fx37vwXh2h0NxxYBw2SxW3GdTA9wXyZaXDICK62J2hdRvXvJlfZftWnwJaNrdjl3543WVTaMndpDoZjDnZ-XG9H5RlXprvZMsEbrKZA=w1240-h828-no?authuser=0)
And here are the grind marks...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ceXzbhvfV4Tp2EyUZC9m14XHVEm2cWFacTvlQn1170FIlVlh92vhjaiZND85m9UAgsPzzDEJ2hlXDOD-e_uWjS_wwT8dUwwyTzmInnTgQVQQ-Md2YRWkIulTDQ90X4dPVqXuhOfPxkcTuYmNbvZNyOZw=w1240-h828-no?authuser=0)
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'We all know what we know.." .. but some/most of us are still learning, regardless of our age or experience... :)
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I will see if I can get someone that worked on the line at Van Nuys assembly to comment.
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I did these samples of black lacquer with flattening agent at the indicated percentage in it then taped off and half I HAND POLISHED with swirl remover.
20% flattener
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8KpkD-pUkVw0BJ-AY38aCpD2Fg6JbFjnGX3ygKeb2kgkVnsM1AeNC0ON7Lrfs_haFpKN9BY8d3wwTDbGT1d65XnTqrxorkPyp5cTzOsvhYE-ymauuVrbIwrTknuT7zGOg5I_ow_pz_PKT8qQQ6WfppMDsTEcl2ua_000YD4FRWmBrC1ACo9y5_uTHi36JLQ3d0jswSyG4BWz3jXtVdBlwEXXQK64tnIJ5UJ2jY7p8QpHvxoATQ0jbB1ES7g5aLDmOiZ-AVeFi2ZFSxlY8-dIXil3FQGota5nQOtPwoR1qxCNqgoxhOjV8d3G7znlG-REpo8HRtpTRkVSWMXR6jQbauWDBsbbvBxcP_7mGe0nvvlLei87aDiDBh38rAxx_cmqlzLb9PPc8mYOI9k-2ux4SQ3nqeb_zUMTEVDH9rjwRsglVQRC00mWfKTY_niUqlZm3pkiwnN4WWOt3jk0IQpvIhb-49xWCEdBguYf_6m6EubEqtYfVMs9kOalgKw9ztJ55FvP9FvVKrFbjCDHHR_Imy4lXcvQfytFUchTgwVTcZI-Ju7hKf9XuV3rUV7UXQJ9mvei5RC1Er5KU7amQej9i2BQYsxDrw1TefEWINfYCp85xieA2RswOIssFw54GCsI0VLP0gVUUlBD4DDWaJfyf-u6S-JTQyJAFB2vRqYJCZaLcaPNLK--o8D1UCJ9-g=w1240-h828-no?authuser=0)
30% Flattener
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/M5MpB9gBMWQkOY70UpTD2RGUNf9VCbTNCLA90Jl7eOTU9l4BXegx9F5_pwQ2hkHJlXYNntypw95jJuJxoqnyOLAX273N8beFPB_J4SJiTLZqAl_BstfCUpXNXwHnp0NfGIE0bYZU-VpahfX91u7KiyKyD7e4wpliQhSVH2lAso932IP43O-bIZRCBgqavn5Gm92kTjyQloO6vbzihJpUslKV3TbZ-2lSdWl6QR3jk3fI1-4Fwi3BwPbGrCl1o7HLIN2MC8pHRd-k5A921T9zyyLYDa-FZ5jLJcea2mGF9Y6UrxwyU5bEPL6K2Ubx3SWP6-ArTJGG_sURrgZ66NAaxjk76Hb7Zb1u9kRIz-oScG8EOAugY3CgZWpAiAp6cjQgxVk5iIFAC4CnCcYD7qhD4qMqD8qGaKaTljBVwfV_2oNIhbamOz3VWDxy9AAiNaC2f39XfGDp9gspDc594ndWgqqsgp2y_AwggzW1q3mqNhrIZaIL5Z4V2Mhrc0YWfPIA97cCweBQywawGo4ICMjb6VkonXu0Qd-4PnZBU8tUZ4xQ5weMaFjCvrvEAe5s2R9JPnvqorYGhFvjvPUmVPCULBXc3GG8H5cxXMmJq0-MIOb4YedTX-YsDQpjsPguch3oayucCnaMEfKU4-jOVsTC50i7r4DxPF1TWvjYqIuZ_fkRiNCDy1ca41JGJdkYCg=w1240-h828-no?authuser=0)
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Thanks James.
It shows what happens with polishing. :)
btw...30%
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FWIW I add 20% flattener in the final 2 coats when shooting Corvettes for NCRS judging... if you don't most catalyzed paints look too plastic... no pun intended.
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I found this picture online awhile back and snapped a picture of it on my phone for reference. I will refer back to this pic when my tail panel is painted. Of course that will be a long way away. The picture said 1st SS396. I don’t remember what site it was. I will have to look again but I do remember this SS396 was shown with other Camaros.
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no work.
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X66 your attachment is 0kb.. meaning the photo did not attach.
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Still have trouble sometimes with pics. Let me try again.
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That looks like the show car.
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Yeah Kurt I just saw that today under the concept cars section of this site. I don’t know where on the internet I saw this Camaro listed as the 1st SS396.