CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Maxsg1973 on May 20, 2019, 08:17:13 AM
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Hello CRG Team,
I have an opportunity to buy a 1969 Camaro and it may be a L78 car.
My question: Is anyone familiar with this car? The current owner has a display board claiming it to be a L78 car with the L89 option. I have yet to inspect the car and have made arrangements to view the car this week. I’m trying to get some community help and see if anyone may have the original Jerry MacNeish report or know the history of this car? I have a feeling (Jerry MacNeish) was listing the RPO on the Certificate of Authenticity if it was verified in 2013 but I'm not sure if that's the case. This certificate only says SS396. Somefeed back on that too would be great. The current owner said it would be $1600 to get a copy of the original report and I have not verified that as of yet but may be accurate. Owner has no other documents. I am aware of the many incorrect items in the engine bay from examining the engine bay picture but I am not an expert by any means.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
(https://i.ibb.co/mT8yZK1/IMG-4381.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wgsQGq3)
(https://i.ibb.co/bHsKkJG/7-Iv90eqb-Sl-O0-ZY0-Cnv-Yvg.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvSRxVc)
(https://i.ibb.co/L9xStgX/oy-Kcu-k-SSC2-VXy8q-G-Guvg.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kq4K8Ds)
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I suggest you get in touch with Jerry. Also, have the current owner show you the second page (and subsequent, if any) which will tell you exactly what Jerry found when he did the inspection.
Jerry's contact information is on his WEB PAGE (http://z28camaro.com/).
Ed
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That first page of Jerry's report means nothing other than he inspected it. You need to see the meat of the report on the subsequent pages.
How convenient the seller has lost the rest of the report. If I was the seller and the car was even near real, you can bet I would have the full report available as it would add more than the cost of the report.
Looks to early for an X code. Aluminum water pump tells me it was built to owners wishes rather than back to factory.
I also recognize the back ground and all the old guys in it. That's Pavilions in Scottsdale AZ. Guaranteed if that was real they would know about it on The Supercar Registry (yenko.net).
Even if it's not real, they will know about it. Most are retired and go there every week and have probably seen it a hundred times.
Opportunity you say? Is it a dealer car?
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There was a car just like this in central Pa. about 20 years ago. Could this be it?
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How convenient to lose the report and keep the certificate. A copy of the report isn't that much...
Came out of FL, then CT.
Use to have a restamped JH block, so it sure can't be an original L89 block.
124379N555742
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Hello Gentleman,
Thank you for your advise it is much appreciated.
I did mention in the original post that is the only document the current owner has other than the title. I will take your advise and call Jerry MacNeish before viewing the car.
The pictures of the car where taken at the Pavilions in Scottsdale by me before I knew the current owner would decide to offer the car to me for purchase.
The current owner is not a dealer to my knowledge.
Based on the VIN the car is a December built car and may be a close to 12B (second week of December) build week, when I do the numbers it may have an X code on the trim tag (X22 SS396 / X66 SS396). I feel it's a 12A (no X codes) car from my limited experience in doing the math that I don't really know how to do Haha. But then how did Jerry know its a SS396? It may have an X code. Haha. I also believe it should be a JJ Engine Suffix Code if its a real L78 with the L89 option.
I did happen to meet a gentleman by the name of Larry C. at the Pavilions that is very knowledgeable about Camaros and I do understand he has seen the car out there. I will reach out to him as well and see what he may understand about the car.
I've been looking for a L78 for a little bit so I've seen lots of creative advertising and descriptions of cars for sale.
If anyone else wants to add anymore information or knows anything about the car that would be great.
Thank you
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Hello Gentleman,
Thank you for your advise it is much appreciated.
I did mention in the original post that is the only document the current owner has other than the title. I will take your advise and call Jerry MacNeish before viewing the car.
The pictures of the car where taken at the Pavilions in Scottsdale by me before I knew the current owner would decide to offer the car to me for purchase.
The current owner is not a dealer to my knowledge.
Based on the VIN the car is a December built car and may be a close to 12B (second week of December) build week, when I do the numbers it may have an X code on the trim tag (X22 SS396 / X66 SS396). I feel it's a 12A (no X codes) car from my limited experience in doing the math that I don't really know how to do Haha. But then how did Jerry know its a SS396? It may have an X code. Haha. I also believe it should be a JJ Engine Suffix Code if its a real L78 with the L89 option.
I did happen to meet a gentleman by the name of Larry C. at the Pavilions that is very knowledgeable about Camaros and I do understand he has seen the car out there. I will reach out to him as well and see what he may understand about the car.
I've been looking for a L78 for a little bit so I've seen lots of creative advertising and descriptions of cars for sale.
If anyone else wants to add anymore information or knows anything about the car that would be great.
Thank you
Everything you need to know is in reply #4 above your reply
I do NOT believe this car will have an X code based on its vin.
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Understood. I did just hear back from a friend that has seen the car and to be polite I believe its an L89 clone. Thank you guys for your help!
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None of the above information is based on facts. It's all speculation by people who have never reviewed/inspected the information or have viewed this car.
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If you want, post up some pics of the engine, transmission and axle stamps - and you will get some feedback.
:)
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None of the above information is based on facts. It's all speculation by people who have never reviewed/inspected the information or have viewed this car.
Welcome aboard and as Bryon asked post some pics. Also JerryM report statement on findings would be based on facts. Again welcome aboard!
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None of the above information is based on facts. It's all speculation by people who have never reviewed/inspected the information or have viewed this car.
I do not agree with that characterization of the discussion.
If you want to clarify the situation, either post up Jerry's complete report and/or post the drivetrain stampings.
If you continue to contact members of this forum and harass them about this post, you will be banned. This is your one and only warning.
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I confirmed with Jerry that he will send a copy of his report for $250. Cheaper than an inspection!
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That VIN is about 2,200 before my 12A with no X code. Probably in the "lost zone" dealer docs like mine.
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If that's the "L89" HO car that I'm familliar with - it has a repop TT.
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This car, 9N555742, has its original tag.
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UPDATED ***Certified by Camaro expert Jerry MacNeish as being a true SS 396, born a 4 speed and has very rare COPO 4.56 posi rear. Also factory trim tag indicating hugger orange with white interior. He also indicated it is the original interior in excellent condition and has rust free original floors. Claimed 16,830 actual miles, marked as actual on title and the car supports it. EXTERIOR: Factory born hugger orange without a vinyl roof. Decked out with hockey stick stripe, spoilers, bumper gaurds and exterior trim package. It's show quality in my opinion. Exceptionally clean, straight body that fits nice. Older paint job that still has a glass finish. Jambs are clean and painted neatly. Stripe is painted on to correct dimensions. Tail panel is painted satin black, correct for an SS. All of the chrome and stainless trim is practically new looking. Excellent original glass, even the windshield is original which supports low miles. Weatherstrips and window seals were replaced. Sits nice, has restored rally wheels, BFG tires are excellent. INTERIOR: ''Excellent original interior''- Jerry MacNeish. This interior sure does support the claim to 16,830 miles, especially being white. No signs of abuse. Very good upholstery and door panels. Dash area is exceptional. Mint dash pad, the instrument bezels are excellent, the chrome outlines are shiney. Has factory Am radio, heater control panel is excellent. Still had matching cigarette lighter, glovebox liner is original. Has full set of factory gauges, tachometer and clock. Has original console and a deluxe woodgrain wheel. The dome light and light in the console work. The headliner, visors, rear deck area are excellent. ENGINE COMPARTMENT: Has restamped, vin # matched 396-375 hp motor with L-89 GM aluminum heads. The motor compartment was restored to factory appearance with a few upgrades. The GM aluminum intake, Holley carb, fuel lines and air cleaner look stock. The heads, valve covers and deep groove pulleys look stock. Upgraded MSD ignition, coated long tube headers and aluminum water pump. Has stock appearing GM hoses and clamps, correct 4 core radiator with goose neck. Everything is tidy, painted nice etc. Wiring is neat, washers are hooked up. Runs strong! TRUNK COMPARTMENT: Very clean metal trunk compartment. From what I can tell looking up in there, the quarter panels are original. It's been neatly spatter painted and there's a full rubber mat with matching tire cover. The spare is a new rally and BFG tire. Also has jack assembly. Weatherstrip might be original, it's a little tattered. Bottom of the trunk lid is painted nice. UNDERSIDE: ''Very good original floors, no rust'' Jerry MacNeish. Recent dual exhaust system with Stainless Magnaflow mufflers. New fuel system tank, sending unit, straps and lines. Brake system was rebuilt- disc in front, new stainless lines, new e-brake cables. The front was completely rebuilt and detailed in correct finishes. Rear suspension also looks new- bushings, leaf springs and shocks. Also upgraded with frame connectors and traction bars. Bottom of the motor has clean Chevy orange paint, high torque starter. The 4-speed Muncie was upgraded with an M-22 Auto Gear. New Hurst linkage. Rare high performance 4.56 posi rear code BW E, ''original to vehicle''- Jerry MacNeish. It is special ordered COPO (Central Office Production Order). You are buying a certified SS 396 born with a 4-speed, original COPO rear, factory Hugger orange with white interior. This much is certain. The low miles is claimed to be original and is supported by an original white interior in excellent condition. It also makes sense to have low miles with a 4.56 gear, it was probably 1/4 mile at a time! It can't be proven or disproven if it was born an L-78 375 hp but again the 4.56 gear would certainly make most sense to have been ordered with a 375 hp. If it was a proven L89 with 16,000 miles it would be well over $100,000.
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Was COPO 9511 available without COPO 9560-61?
Or were any rear ratios deeper than 4.10 automatically a COPO 9511?
I had been under the assumption that the deeper ratio was available in a Z28 or a L78 at the time this car was built.
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How could he possibly know the 4.56 rear was orig. to vehicle without docs ?
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How could he possibly know the 4.56 rear was orig. to vehicle without docs ?
Many appraisal certificates state the same. Don't see how without a genuine PoP, correct era factory stamp does not confirm original to vehicle. Maybe it's because owners want to be able to show certification of the 'trifecta' - original block, transmission and rear end. But only 2 of the 3 have a partial VIN to allow confirmation.
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So, this is a 16,000 mile car with a repaint and a restamped engine? Is the engine date code correct? Rebuilt original engine that was decked and needed restamped?
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None of the above information is based on facts. It's all speculation by people who have never reviewed/inspected the information or have viewed this car.
Wow!
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I was asking if it was a real L89 car because of the board displayed with the vehicle when it is being shown. The authenticity of it being a 396 car was not much of a concern because Jerry said it was a SS 396.
(https://i.ibb.co/wCkQfHn/fullsizeoutput-278.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Cvc9fdj)
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I must say, I’m confused! I am trying to follow along. In the pic in post #22, directly above ^, of the sign board, it says it has a BU , 3.73 rear. The comments of the new fella in the lengthy post, #16, says the JM report says it has a 4.56 BW? Are we discussing the same car?
To answer the question posed in the previous post as whether it is a true L89 car? Without ironclad proof documents...assume it is not. Nothing against this car, but when some unsubstantiated claim is made about a car, such as one like this one, to me, the whole car becomes suspect. I don’t want to pick cars apart, but if I were to see a sign board at a show and anything seemed incredulous about the claims, I tend to wonder what else is not right with said vehicle?
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https://www.volocars.com/auto-sales/vehicles/15659/1969-chevrolet-camaro-ss-396
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"I, Jay Grams, take pride in personally writing the descriptions for virtually every car for about the last 30 years now. A significant amount of effort goes into fact checking. What I am offering is my professional impression of the vehicle. "
Same guy that tried to sell me a fake LS6 Chevelle convert years ago.