CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: RUNUTZ on November 09, 2015, 05:06:14 PM
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http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/1509-amazing-story-behind-the-first-dana-427-conversion-of-a-1967-chevrolet-camaro/
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Evidently not. Peyton Cramer and Paul Dombrowski purchased the former Enoch Chevrolet dealership in August '66, renaming it Dana Chevrolet. Cramer was no longer employed by Shelby at that time. This car as shown in the article was not built until November 26, 1966 according to the NCRS Muscle Docs service. Evidently we are supposed to believe that Peyton Cramer bought a 327 powerglide car in a state he did not live in from Brown & Hoeye Chevrolet in Mesa, AZ many months after purchasing his own Chevrolet dealership in Southern CA where he lived. If you own your own dealership, I would think that you would order a car in the color you wanted but this car was originally Sierra Fawn with a gold standard interior even though the real DC-1 drag car was all black. I would think if you want to build a 427 drag car, you would probably want to start with an SS350 but this car was a base V8 with an automatic. This car also had tinted windshield and the Z21 exterior chrome package which the original DC-1 car did not have. Dana also advertised in early November that they were building 427 cars and this car was not built until several weeks later. There is no paperwork to prove it and no proven continuous chain of ownership. Former Dana employees Dick Guldstrand and Don McCain were asked to authenticate this car and neither would do it. Now that Dick has passed away, this article has appeared. This is a free country. Use your own judgement as to whether you believe the article or not.
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When Hot Rod had their 75th? ann. they admitted faking ALL the statistics from the red SS350 back in '67. I think the articles went on for about 4 months, first with headers then slicks, etc. I'm sure you remember the cover with the parachute? Then a 396 that was actually a built 427 handed to them by Chevrolet. It was all fake. I have not believed any magazine article since.
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When Hot Rod had their 75th? ann. they admitted faking ALL the statistics from the red SS350 back in '67. I think the articles went on for about 4 months, first with headers then slicks, etc. I'm sure you remember the cover with the parachute? Then a 396 that was actually a built 427 handed to them by Chevrolet. It was all fake. I have not believed any magazine article since.
Bill Thomas told me the first testing they did the car had an open rear (non posi) and off the line they gaurdrailed the car.
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Evidently not. Peyton Cramer and Paul Dombrowski purchased the former Enoch Chevrolet dealership in August '66, renaming it Dana Chevrolet. Cramer was no longer employed by Shelby at that time. This car as shown in the article was not built until November 26, 1966 according to the NCRS Muscle Docs service. Evidently we are supposed to believe that Peyton Cramer bought a 327 powerglide car in a state he did not live in from Brown & Hoeye Chevrolet in Mesa, AZ many months after purchasing his own Chevrolet dealership in Southern CA where he lived. If you own your own dealership, I would think that you would order a car in the color you wanted but this car was originally Sierra Fawn with a gold standard interior even though the real DC-1 drag car was all black. I would think if you want to build a 427 drag car, you would probably want to start with an SS350 but this car was a base V8 with an automatic. This car also had tinted windshield and the Z21 exterior chrome package which the original DC-1 car did not have. Dana also advertised in early November that they were building 427 cars and this car was not built until several weeks later. There is no paperwork to prove it and no proven continuous chain of ownership. Former Dana employees Dick Guldstrand and Don McCain were asked to authenticate this car and neither would do it. Now that Dick has passed away, this article has appeared. This is a free country. Use your own judgement as to whether you believe the article or not.
wow they were offered alot of money for a car that nobody knew of sold in Arizona?
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If you ever read Muscle Car Confessions about the factory supplying test cars you get the feeling that most were just not pulled from some dealers lot. So what is to verify? Like testing a 389 GTO that later was said to be a 428.
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Don't paint them all with the same brush. Plenty of vintage car magazines accurately reported results. I just checked several of them: a new LS6 Chevelle in the mid 13s, '69 Hemi Chargers in the low 13s, '68 Z/28 with 4.10s @ 14.85, '69 Z/28 with cross-ram @ 15.12, '68 Ram-Air Firebird @15.0, '69 Hurst Olds @ 14.08, '68 Chevelle L78 @ 13.86, '69 Cougar Eliminator 428 @ 13.91, 69 Camaro L78 @ 14.77. The #3 ZL1 Camaro @ 13.20, a Yenko Chevelle made several passes @ 13.60.
The worst of them all appears to have been Car & Driver starting with the Ferrari GTO vs. Pontiac GTO back in '64. The Pontiac was cheated up a bit with a 421. Later on they did a "Supercar Comparison" which I don't have. Mopar refused to send a car, claiming there was no way any of the test cars would be stock. Turned out they were pretty much right.
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Interesting E.T. numbers, William. And to think that today with a fogged 4 or even 6 cylinder these numbers can easily be beaten by a few seconds lower. Not counting the weight of the car of course and the long term motor longevity.
Mike
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Don't paint them all with the same brush. Plenty of vintage car magazines accurately reported results. I just checked several of them: a new LS6 Chevelle in the mid 13s, '69 Hemi Chargers in the low 13s, '68 Z/28 with 4.10s @ 14.85, '69 Z/28 with cross-ram @ 15.12, '68 Ram-Air Firebird @15.0, '69 Hurst Olds @ 14.08, '68 Chevelle L78 @ 13.86, '69 Cougar Eliminator 428 @ 13.91, 69 Camaro L78 @ 14.77. The #3 ZL1 Camaro @ 13.20, a Yenko Chevelle made several passes @ 13.60.
The worst of them all appears to have been Car & Driver starting with the Ferrari GTO vs. Pontiac GTO back in '64. The Pontiac was cheated up a bit with a 421. Later on they did a "Supercar Comparison" which I don't have. Mopar refused to send a car, claiming there was no way any of the test cars would be stock. Turned out they were pretty much right.
I've always been stunned by the low e.t. #s from stock big block 69 Camaros. Even the L78 w/ 14.77... My 93 Z28 with no internal mods & 3.73s was running 13.1 consistently. 1 1/2 seconds faster than my SS396 in stock form.
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Typically the cars weren't geared for drag racing. Most of the testing was on street tires, right off the showroom floor. PHR had an L89/auto '69 Camaro with 3.73 gears. Best was 14.20 with slicks. Even an L78/auto/3.55 Nova could only do 13.87. An L34/auto/3.73 '69 Nova did a best of 15.15. How about an L88/auto/3.36 Corvette? 13.56 was as good as it got. But tires, deep gears and a little work went a long way. Slicks & open headers on a Yenko Camaro, 11.94; 11.64 on a ZL1.
Found a few more: '66 Nova L79 SS @ 15.10, '70 442 W30 @13.98 '70 Cutlass W31 @ 14.62, '70 Z28 @ 14.60, '70 Challenger RT 440/auto @ 14.54. The now famous Hot Rod '67 Camaro SS350 checked in @ 14.85, not hard to believe.
And you're correct. Many of today's passenger cars are as fast-or faster. This month, Hot Rod got 11.18 out of a new Charger Hellcat. That was at night on a good track but the thing weighs about 4400 lbs. Better tires and some work, it's in the 10s. These may be the good 'ol days.
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I read somewhere the fastest was the 70 Buick GS Stage 1. I think it said high 12,s.
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Those numbers make you appreciate what the boys in the F.A.S.T. series do on street tires. Yea, I know the guts are premium but they still look stock.
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Back in the late 80's or early 90's Muscle Car Nationals (60's cars) was held at Norwalk...slicks, open headers, nothing radical. Head work. Some of the faster cars were running mid 11's. Par was 12's and up...Performance really took off, factory wise, with the push towards better fuel economy + performance. Better "breathing", more efficient engines with computers monitoring and adjusting demands. And reliability. Hats off to the engineers.
They were fast, but maybe not as fast as some would like to remember, lol. But yes, I'll give tires and gearing !
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I still have the tape Muscle Car Nationals '87. Interesting to watch but the audio could have been better to make you "feel the power". I doubt today many of those owners would put their car through the paces of a 1/4 mile track now in fear of blowing a motor, or worst yet, wrap it up in a guard rail.
Mike
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I was still in the Air Force in 87, think I participated in 90 come to think of it. May. Big issue were axels blowing out the side and drive shafts. I grenaded a set of GM 4:88's at a Power fest. And the M21 was short lived, didn't last long at the strip. Went to a $75.00 350 trans out of a junked Monte Carlo, Fairbanks full manual, took a lot of abuse. Still have that auto trans on a pallet. Finally had the Muncie rebuilt/restored about 3 years ago. If I run the Z again, the M21 will stay shelved.
There was an orange Z at the event I was at, 302 car, not just the emblem, love to know if it's still around N/E Ohio. Maybe on this site.
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btw, I believe this car is 124377L121011. Was on ebay a few years ago.
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This was the tag pic.
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Those numbers make you appreciate what the boys in the F.A.S.T. series do on street tires. Yea, I know the guts are premium but they still look stock.
If you like this stuff have a look at the pure stock and factory stock classes. It's a closer representation of what these cars can be capable of with attention to detail and running stock rubber.
I tried this years ago with my firebird. Even these guys (especially now) are running pretty impressive times considering the stringent rules they have to abide with. The fastest PS guys today can cut 60 foot times in the 1.6-1.7 range on reproduction Goodyears and Firestones. F.A.S.T. is neat, but it's big dollar to be competitive in that class, however it's still cool to see what they can do on a stock tire. I believe Lane Carey may still hold the record in F.A.S.T. with his BES built stroker ford.