Power Brake Booster Valve: A Comparison between Original vs Reproduction

[ko-lek-tor]

I took a few side by side comparison pictures of a good reproduction and an original brake booster valves. This part is available @ http://www.johnsclassiccars.com/
Credit ZLP955 (Tim Stone) for telling me about this decent reproduction. The two most notable differences (to me) appear to be the depth of that small center hole. Repro is shallower. And, the outer lip or rim is a little deeper or thicker (evident in pic 2,diameter is ok though). I did not feel it necessary to use a caliper to illustrate, but will be happy to measure the parts dimensions, if some insist.

[Mike S]

 I've seen that very accurate reproduction valve being sold is L.I. Corvette Supply too.

Mike

[ZLP955]

Good pictures to compare them Bentley. The only other difference I can make out is the lack of the 3 dots on the face of the repro check valve. They still look a lot better to me than the valves most of the usual vendors carry, and the ones commonly fitted when getting a booster restored.
Mike, I think you're correct and these might even be identical to those sold by Long Island Corvette Supply. If so, those are more than double the cost of these ($19 versus $8).

[68camaroz28]

That's a nice piece and agree its so much better and accurate looking than the ones that come with repro or restored units. My only and its a small issue is the pure white color. The one I'm using on our 68Z restoration came off a Delco Remy Engineering unit dated May, 1968 that was sent to Jerry Stahl (Stahl Headers), was never used, and just stored away. I purchased that unit when Jerry closed up shop and the valve in that unit has a light, very light tan looking color very similar to what is seen in survivors. One might think the heat of the engine and time dis-colored the valve but with a stored unit never used as I was lucky enough to obtain shows IMO that is how they were during that time period. That is not taking anything away from this one and have started to see some of them on restored cars but the pure white jumps out.
I had not checked on a source but good to know.... 

[68camaroz28]

A pic of that NOS valve that is more of a off white/very light tan plastic on our 68Z restoration.

[ZLP955]

Chick I do agree that the fresh white would stand out and highlight the part as new, especially on a survivor. I've received a few suggestions from a restoration buddy (one of which was to make up a thick paste of instant coffee granules and apply that to the visible parts of the plastic valve for a while) so have some experiments to conduct over our winter, which is just around the corner. I'd rather leave it obviously new and white than ruin the part, but thought I'd try a few of the suggestions out on scrap plastic test pieces.

[Mike S]

 The coffee idea sound interesting. I may give it a shot, but hold the milk and sugar 
 It sure stains teeth easy enough.

Mike

[ZLP955]

Digging this thread up again as there was a recent discussion about check valves, and I realised I hadn't updated this with my experiment to impart some 'aged color' to the very white reproduction that Bentley originally posted pics of.
So - this is the comparison. The valve on the right was the result of soaking in a zip-lok bag containing a strong coffee. I started off leaving it for 24 hours, but it barely took on any of the color; this picture is after about a week in the bag. The artificial lighting makes it contrast heavily against the as-purchased repro on the left, and appear maybe a little too dark, but in natural light it looked very much like an original on a friend's car.
Still lacking the patina of a used original, but when installed, far less obvious as a repro to me. In hindsight, I would have removed it a day or two sooner, but being honest I got sidetracked and forgot it 
Interested in opinions!

[KevinW]

I like it! I will have to try it on one of my white repro parts. thx

[Mike S]

Tim,

  HA! No wonder coffee drinkers don't have ultra white teeth. Any worries about the coffee effecting the rubber check valve? I assume you didn't seal the ends judging from no signs of the ends being blocked off.
Great method!

Mike

[ko-lek-tor]

Here is an original of mine that had undercoating sprayed all over the exposed areas somewhat protecting it's surface, contrasted with the darker part where the hose attached. This gives some credence to Chick's statement in the other thread, saying these valves were white (referring to his new valve and booster he acquired from Jere Stahl). I do not ever think these valves were as white as the repros, but lighter than we may have pictured in our mind's eye. Picture taken in natural light.

[BULLITT65]

Tim your pics showing the coffee experiment are great. I think it turned out just right. I would run it on my car.
So what brand of coffee was that?....

[cook_dw]

You forgot to ask what the scoop ratio was for the coffee, the temperature of the water, humidity, was it filtered water, water content percentages of Fluorine compounds,Trihalomethanes (THMs), Salts of: arsenic, radium, aluminium, copper, lead, mercury, cadmium, barium, Hormones, Nitrates and Pesticides.

[ko-lek-tor]

You forgot to ask what the scoop ratio was for the coffee, the temperature of the water, humidity, was it filtered water, water content percentages of Fluorine compounds,Trihalomethanes (THMs), Salts of: arsenic, radium, aluminium, copper, lead, mercury, cadmium, barium, Hormones, Nitrates and Pesticides.

Now, THAT is the kind of answer I like!   Not to mention altitude at which this "seasoning" was done? lol

[1968RSZ28]

You forgot to ask what the scoop ratio was for the coffee, the temperature of the water, humidity, was it filtered water, water content percentages of Fluorine compounds,Trihalomethanes (THMs), Salts of: arsenic, radium, aluminium, copper, lead, mercury, cadmium, barium, Hormones, Nitrates and Pesticides.

Now, THAT is the kind of answer I like!   Not to mention altitude at which this "seasoning" was done? lol

None of this matters, Tim is in the Southern Hemisphere!  The results will be different in the Northern Hemisphere! 

Paul

[cook_dw]

None of this matters, Tim is in the Southern Hemisphere!  The results will be different in the Northern Hemisphere! 

Paul

Just takes a plane ticket...

[Mike S]

Tim just stirs the coffee mixture CCW instead of CW like us northern's do.

Mike

[BULLITT65]

what was the name of the donkey that carried the coffee beans?

[ZLP955]

Any worries about the coffee effecting the rubber check valve? I assume you didn't seal the ends judging from no signs of the ends being blocked off.

Mike, I didn't want a color change on the valve, even if it would be hidden by the hoses, so I plugged both holes on the valve with some scrap rubber bungs as I wasn't sure if any moisture would affect the internals. IIRC from a previous thread, the valve just consists of a small spring and a rubber diaphragm though, doubt it would be ruined by a bit of coffee.

[ZLP955]

Ah, all the technical process questions!

1. Take chipped 99cent supermarket ceramic mug.
2. Add 2 heaped teaspoons of Nescafé Blend 43 granules to 1/2 cup boiling Aussie rainwater.
3. Dozen stirs counter-clockwise using slightly tarnished teaspoon.
4. Leave to cool while doing yard work, then pour into small Zip-Lok bag.
5. Add one $8 repro check valve from John's Classic Cars and seal bag.
6. Check until happy with color and remove.
OR
6a. Wife asks what is that mess in the bag on the counter? and you remember the experiment, remove valve and wish you'd caught it sooner.

[ko-lek-tor]

Ah, all the technical process questions!

1. Take chipped 99cent supermarket ceramic mug.
2. Add 2 heaped teaspoons of Nescafé Blend 43 granules to 1/2 cup boiling Aussie rainwater.
3. Dozen stirs counter-clockwise using slightly tarnished teaspoon.
4. Leave to cool while doing yard work, then pour into small Zip-Lok bag.
5. Add one $8 repro check valve from John's Classic Cars and seal bag.
6. Check until happy with color and remove.
OR
6a. Wife asks what is that mess in the bag on the counter? and you remember the experiment, remove valve and wish you'd caught it sooner.

Your Aussie humor is great, Tim!
^^^6a.  That is my Modus Operandi.

[1968 Z28]

Ah, all the technical process questions!
6a. Wife asks what is that mess in the bag on the counter? and you remember the experiment, remove valve and wish you'd caught it sooner.

Hi Tim.....did you try bleach to lighten the color?  Or just leave it be.

[BULLITT65]

Ah, all the technical process questions!
6a. Wife asks what is that mess in the bag on the counter? and you remember the experiment, remove valve and wish you'd caught it sooner.

Hi Tim.....did you try bleach to lighten the color?  Or just leave it be.

That is part 2 of this post, how to brighten your over dyed coffee booster valve....

Jerry your killing me .....

[68camaroz28]

Ah, all the technical process questions!

1. Take chipped 99cent supermarket ceramic mug.
2. Add 2 heaped teaspoons of Nescafé Blend 43 granules to 1/2 cup boiling Aussie rainwater.
3. Dozen stirs counter-clockwise using slightly tarnished teaspoon.
4. Leave to cool while doing yard work, then pour into small Zip-Lok bag.
5. Add one $8 repro check valve from John's Classic Cars and seal bag.
6. Check until happy with color and remove.
OR
6a. Wife asks what is that mess in the bag on the counter? and you remember the experiment, remove valve and wish you'd caught it sooner.

Tim, good on ya, but didn't you drink the coffee then? Oh, my wife has asked me more then once what I'm doing in HER Kitchen.

[ZLP955]

Ha! My long-suffering wife puts up with a lot more than an experiment on the counter. I had a pair of 186 heads on the bedroom floor for months (don't ask why) that caught their fair share of passing toes, then there was the time I used the dishwasher to degrease parts while she was in town, the next time it got used the dishes etc all came out greasy.... Then the powdercoating trial using the oven.....

[BULLITT65]

Tim you are a brave man, but maybe the Aussie wives know what they are in for when they marry you guys.....

My wife has to let me know when I smell like gasoline since I do not smell it on myself anymore. Other than that I try to keep everything regulated to the garage. She hasn't had a problem with me reupholstering seats in the living room though. No grease involved there.

[z28z11]

Yeah, and the drains run backwards to us (counterclockwise) -

Regards -

[70z28lt1]

Thanks for the valve coloring idea.

Going to try it on my repop windshield washer pump. That bright white stands out like a sore thumb.

[zman1969]

Ah, all the technical process questions!

1. Take chipped 99cent supermarket ceramic mug.
2. Add 2 heaped teaspoons of Nescafé Blend 43 granules to 1/2 cup boiling Aussie rainwater.
3. Dozen stirs counter-clockwise using slightly tarnished teaspoon.
4. Leave to cool while doing yard work, then pour into small Zip-Lok bag.
5. Add one $8 repro check valve from John's Classic Cars and seal bag.
6. Check until happy with color and remove.
OR
6a. Wife asks what is that mess in the bag on the counter? and you remember the experiment, remove valve and wish you'd caught it sooner.

Wont we have to stir clockwise above the equator?

I tried link to Johns classic cars and I couldnt fine the valve   anyone have the part number?

[ZLP955]

Rich try this: http://www.johnsclassiccars.com/parts/detail_view/Parts/Camaro/3670

[70z28lt1]

We are a strange crowd I think...Pay good money for a shiny new white valve and then spend much time and money on figuring out how to make it change color!  It does keep it interesting.

[68camaroz28]

Due to a Team Camaro thread I recently purchased a power booster valve that had more of a vanilla appearance off ebay to review as Liked the color of it compared to the refrigerator white looking valve and wanted to compare it to our NOS valve shown earlier that came off the May68 dated Delco Remy power booster/master cyl. assembly purchased from Jere Stahl (RIP). I just placed this information in my build thread but thought it should be posted here as well.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/29-forum-classifieds/425201-wtb-correct-68-power-brake-booster-check-valve.html
Original valve attached to hose. The repro has both a shade darker and the three circular dots are more pronounced but it looks very nice.

[ZLP955]

Looks good Chick, thanks for the comparison - certainly getting closer to the original aren't they.
I don't have one of the latest repro pieces myself, but from the photos, it looks like there are a couple of differences that are probably only noticeable when side-by-side with an original:
- the orientation of the 3 dots relative to the vacuum hose spigot varies (but that 'clocking' may even vary from valve to valve as part of the manufacturing process to join the two parts of the valve body?).
- some original valves seem to have a letter or number on at least one of the dots.
- the dishing of the hole in the center of the original valve seems a little deeper than on the new one.
- the inner raised ring appears thicker on the reproduction.
- the original valves seem to have a 'wavy' line (highly technical term!) around the face, between outer and inner raised rings; can't see clearly if the repro also has this.

[ko-lek-tor]

link to one such animal http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-1967-Corvette-Brake-Booster-Check-Valve-100-Correct-/121968615746

[68camaroz28]

Looks good Chick, thanks for the comparison - certainly getting closer to the original aren't they.
I don't have one of the latest repro pieces myself, but from the photos, it looks like there are a couple of differences that are probably only noticeable when side-by-side with an original:
- the orientation of the 3 dots relative to the vacuum hose spigot varies (but that 'clocking' may even vary from valve to valve as part of the manufacturing process to join the two parts of the valve body?).
- some original valves seem to have a letter or number on at least one of the dots.
- the dishing of the hole in the center of the original valve seems a little deeper than on the new one.
- the inner raised ring appears thicker on the reproduction.
- the original valves seem to have a 'wavy' line (highly technical term!) around the face, between outer and inner raised rings; can't see clearly if the repro also has this.

Dang Tim you really studied it. Yes there are some other differences as you noted but on the car they would be very difficult to review so my main concern was color as overall appearance has the correct look. My guess or assumption is the #1 on our original was a mold as they had to be making a ton of these for all the GM cars back in the day. Orientation of the 3 dots on the repro closely resembles some other originals I have and do note the original May68 time frame valve is somewhat different but that might have to do with which mold was used. I would not be surprised to know these valves are being made by the original supplier. Have to check out two Nova's that have original valves as well and friends 68 & 69 survivors.

[KurtS]

That's much closer. I really notice the surface finish is different - I wonder if maybe they aren't using steel molds....

[ZLP955]

.....and as stated in the Team Camaro thread linked to in Chick's post, credit goes to Bentley for finding and tipping us off to the latest reproduction valve, as per his ebay URL just above.

[68Zproject]

Chick, Do you know if anything has changed from when this thread was last posted as far as a correct valve?  I was looking over threads on the boosters and found an amusing (to me) back and forth from some restorers on the correct finish of the booster and there was a reference to maybe getting Right Stuff to make correct components.  I searched their site and came up with nothing.  Just wondered if there were any being made that might be even closer to your original valve?

[68camaroz28]

Chick, Do you know if anything has changed from when this thread was last posted as far as a correct valve?  I was looking over threads on the boosters and found an amusing (to me) back and forth from some restorers on the correct finish of the booster and there was a reference to maybe getting Right Stuff to make correct components.  I searched their site and came up with nothing.  Just wondered if there were any being made that might be even closer to your original valve?

What we have listed is the best repro that I'm aware of and is very close to originals. The new close looking one listed is a fairly new valve I believe.

[cook_dw]

I just ordered one a couple weeks ago.  Here it is installed.  Nothing has changed from above posts.

[BULLITT65]

Good update.
Cook I like it when my Booster and master cover, match the bling on my teeth...( just messing with you cook) 

[ZLP955]

Looks good Darrell!

[cook_dw]

Good update.
Cook I like it when my Booster and master cover, match the bling on my teeth...( just messing with you cook) 

Looks good Darrell!

Thanks Tim.

[BULLITT65]

Good one Cook. That guy freaks me out man...