CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: abiddle on October 22, 2015, 05:45:03 PM
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This reproduction isn't even close. Font is wrong, spacing is wrong, and its not even the correct size. As bad as the original is, I don't want to replace it with something that doesn't match. A sticker is so simple, how can they not make a correct reproduction? Arghh.
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Yep. Just started going through this with mine. I have my original core support with sticker intact so I have something to compare it to like you. Awful... I just got my replacement in the mail recently and hadn't looked at it closely until I visited a guy with a 69 RS/SS 350 down in Ohio last weekend who is finishing up a resto. He used the a/m one and it stuck out like a sore thumb. I'm tossing around the idea of not running one because it looks so bad. It's not even just the font, but the sticker looks so cheap that it will start pealing in a week.
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I think I'm going to see how the decals are that a guy on the Chevelle site has made.
http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss/frame.html
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Wow. Thanks! I just sent him an email to buy one.
Andy
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Yes! Don Lightfoot makes the best quality reproduction emission and jacking decals and a nice guy too.
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Wow. Thanks! I just sent him an email to buy one.
Andy
You're welcome!
Yes! Don Lightfoot makes the best quality reproduction emission and jacking decals and a nice guy too.
Good to know. Thanks! I'd heard his name around before, but I wasn't sure.
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Yeah he does great work and stands by it. He discovered a problem with some production quality a few years back and sent me replacements on new media free of charge.
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Yes! Don Lightfoot makes the best quality reproduction emission and jacking decals and a nice guy too.
Have sent Don original info and have purchased from him several times. Numerous threads concerning Don's work and he has in the past visited and made posts with questions and/or information.
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Thanks to Don Lightfoot! Much better... My only concern is durability. Those of you who have bought them and installed them, does the ink hold up? Are you preserving them in anyway? ie. Clear coat? How about affixing them? Do you rely on just the label glue it comes with?
abiddle, your a/m label was even much better than mine! Check out my comparison pics below. My a/m one was even stamped GM licensed. What a joke... Have you received yours? What do you think?
Sorry I can't get the two pics to rotate for some reason...
-Dave
My original:
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20150702_181707.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20150702_181707.jpg.html)
Can you guess which one is which? Wow...
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20151028_165202.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20151028_165202.jpg.html)
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20151028_165754.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20151028_165754.jpg.html)
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Not received yet. :(
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Figured I would jump in here. Thanks for the kind words above.
Dave, as far as adhesion you should not have any problems. I've had one on my 69 Chevelle for about six years now with no issues. I suppose if you take a wet sponge to it once a week or something there would be some problems. For me all that touches it is a duster.
I've done a lot of these various emission decals for my customers with different engines and cars. One customer actually asked me to laminate his which I was glad to do. However, in my opinion, it would just not look right.
Another note for the Z/28 emission CF decal (which is not yours Dave), they had three different styles for the Z and I only do the most common one.
Having said all that, I do notice a problem with the CG decal (the one you have Dave). I went back again today and reviewed all the pictures of originals I have on file. There should be an "underline" under the word "each" on the sixth line from the top. I will try to get that corrected and, if I can, I will send you a new one. Also, I'll send you a laminated one as well and you can decide which one you want to use.
Below is a picture from my website showing comparisons of this CG decal.
(http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss/decal71.jpg)
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Don, are your emissions stickers printed on paper or vinyl? My original is NOT paper... seems to be a form of vinyl...
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Don, are your emissions stickers printed on paper or vinyl?
Paper
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Figured I would jump in here. Thanks for the kind words above.
Dave, as far as adhesion you should not have any problems. I've had one on my 69 Chevelle for about six years now with no issues. I suppose if you take a wet sponge to it once a week or something there would be some problems. For me all that touches it is a duster.
I've done a lot of these various emission decals for my customers with different engines and cars. One customer actually asked me to laminate his which I was glad to do. However, in my opinion, it would just not look right.
Another note for the Z/28 emission CF decal (which is not yours Dave), they had three different styles for the Z and I only do the most common one.
Having said all that, I do notice a problem with the CG decal (the one you have Dave). I went back again today and reviewed all the pictures of originals I have on file. There should be an "underline" under the word "each" on the sixth line from the top. I will try to get that corrected and, if I can, I will send you a new one. Also, I'll send you a laminated one as well and you can decide which one you want to use.
Below is a picture from my website showing comparisons of this CG decal.
(http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss/decal71.jpg)
I did catch the underline Don. I was going to email you about it just as an FYI. I appreciate the correction and you sending out a new one and the laminated one. I'm going as correct as I can, but not Concourse... so maybe the laminated might work better for me. I'll have to see. Thanks a lot for doing that.
I don't plan on scrubbing mine, but I just wanted to know that if it got wet it wouldn't smear. Fading over time or not holding up to abuse is to be expected if that's what happens. I'm sure it will be fine.
abiddle, I'm sure yours will arrive soon. I'm in Michigan, so it's just a hop skip and a jump for shipping from Don.
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I am posting these pictures primarily for the benefit of Gary. The lower decal in each picture is laminated which will provide better durability. However, as mentioned previously, in my opinion it just doesn’t look right. The laminated one also has a bit of a Yellow tint to it which may not show up in the pictures. Also, for effect, one picture is taken with the reflection of a light while the other is not.
Anyway, these are your replacements Dave and should go out in the mail tomorrow.
(http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=25217)
(http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=25209)
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Hey Don, I don't see the pictures of the laminated.
Thanks - Andy
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Don, are your emissions stickers printed on paper or vinyl?
Paper
Is that because you believe the originals to have been paper? OR is there a problem with using vinyl for the type?
PS. I purchased my car in 1976 and the emissions sticker is still in place. Although I accidentally wiped the sticker with a solvent rang (and cleaned off most/all of the print), the sticker is still there and it sure appears to be a vinylized product.
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Andy, those two pictures each have the paper one on the top and the laminated one on the bottom. Hard to see the differences in a picture except for the light reflection in the second picture in the laminated one. The laminated one is more protective and a little shiny.
Gary, given your feedback, if you were to get one of mine I would suggest it be laminated. I do not have the vinyl material or an appropriate printer to do them that way if that is how some of them were. Maybe Andy will give some feedback when he receives his which may give you a better opinion.
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I am posting these pictures primarily for the benefit of Gary. The lower decal in each picture is laminated which will provide better durability. However, as mentioned previously, in my opinion it just doesn’t look right. The laminated one also has a bit of a Yellow tint to it which may not show up in the pictures. Also, for effect, one picture is taken with the reflection of a light while the other is not.
Anyway, these are your replacements Dave and should go out in the mail tomorrow.
(http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=25217)
(http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=25209)
Andy, got your PM. Are you saying you can't see these pictures in my previous post?
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Yes, I don't see any pictures on your posts other than Reply#10. « on: October 29, 2015, 02:14:47 PM »
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STRANGE Andy. Wonder if other viewers have the same problem. I'll email the pictures to you.
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Not to hijack this, but just wanted to compliment Don on the attention to detail and effort that has obviously gone into producing those decals, plus your great customer service in following up and replacing Dave's with the underline added. I will definitely be ordering my decals from you when ready for them!
PS I can see the plain vs laminated pictures, weird that Andy can't......
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Its too early for April Fools. Not seeing those pictures in this thread is bizarre, since I'm seeing all of the other pictures. So I switched from Chrome to Internet Explorer just to check my browser, and I still don't see the pictures.
Don was kind to send them to me via email. Frankly I think laminated vs unlaminated is something you have to see in front of you to notice allow your eyes to do a comparison, I can't tell much of a difference from the pics.
And hijack away. I was very disappointed in the A/M sticker I ordered. Its very cool Don took on this hobby for the nuts amongst us!
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I see them but it may have been an issue where angelfire was down or off line when they were looking at the thread.
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I still don't see the laminated comparison pics in this thread.
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I am posting these pictures primarily for the benefit of Gary. The lower decal in each picture is laminated which will provide better durability. However, as mentioned previously, in my opinion it just doesn’t look right. The laminated one also has a bit of a Yellow tint to it which may not show up in the pictures. Also, for effect, one picture is taken with the reflection of a light while the other is not.
Anyway, these are your replacements Dave and should go out in the mail tomorrow.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=25217
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=25209
Ok I see the issue, these pictures are in a protected album on Team Chevelle. If their showroom works the same as our over at Team Camaro, then you must be a member of Team Chevelle to see these or link to them and have them show up as anything but the black background.
Don maybe post them direct here, or post them at your angelfire page?
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Yes! I can actually see the web links html in 69pace's quote of Don's post. I get nothing when I click the web links, but I think you nailed the issue - I'm not a member on team Chevelle so I can't see those pictures. Since they were embedded pictures in Don's post, nothing displayed - not even the web links.
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Well in Don's original post they are Image Tags so the urls don't show, the system expected to display the target of the tag only the permissions prevented it it it displayed nothing. I removed the tags so folks would realize that Don had in fact posted links to his protected photos. :)
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Ok I see the issue, these pictures are in a protected album on Team Chevelle. If their showroom works the same as our over at Team Camaro, then you must be a member of Team Chevelle to see these.
Interesting, thanks for the input. Always good to learn something new every day. I've uploaded them to my regular photo hosting site which should make a difference. In the first picture notice the light reflection in the "laminated" decal, but not on the "regular" decal. Light was off for the second picture. Hope this helps.
(http://www.pbase.com/don_lightfoot/image/161738875.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/don_lightfoot/image/161738876.jpg)
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There they are. Nice job Don.
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I purchased my CF emission labels from Don a few years. I had him send me both plain and laminated. I believe the look of the laminated is closer to my original. My original mistakenly got wiped with solvent.
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I've received my CF emission sticker from Don, and it doesn't match the sticker on my SS350. Don's sticker exactly matches the example he was given.
(http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss/decal84.jpg)
Apparently there are two versions of this CF sticker. I'm a NOR early build 11C, and the other examples in the above thread are later in 69. So I don't know why there are different versions, but I lucked out to have the version that Don hasn't developed.
Thanks - Andy
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Discussed in prior thread:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9570.0;all
and I this is a version of the CF sticker from that thread which matches my sticker:
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Guess we can't win Andy :-\ Yours is obviously one of the type I don't do. Money refunded.
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Thanks Don! If anyone reading this thread now (or in the future) needs this version of the CF sticker, PM me and I will ship it to you and you can pay Don directly. The sticker is in an above picture marked "^^^ Our Product ^^^".
I would enjoy researching these stickers. In above prior thread, it was mentioned that this was a revised version of the CF sticker which included new information on the 350 & 370 HP, along with some editing corrections (e.g. EMISSION with an S, etc.) My SS350 is an early build 11C, so this doesn't seem to be impacted by the build date relative to the other examples.
Somewhere, in a nondescript box buried in a lonely closet, there are 100s of these stickers just waiting to find the light of day.
Thanks - Andy
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The originals were definitely printed on a vinyl or plastic base. You can tell by feel and by how they deteriorate.
Andy,
What's different from your sticker?
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Other than the feel/texture of the decal, there were apparently two versions of the CF sticker. Don has exactly reproduced the text, spacing and font of version B, but I have version A.
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>What's different from your sticker?
I see the spacing being different on the top two lines.
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>What's different from your sticker?
I see the spacing being different on the top two lines.
Biddle's has "EMISSIONS" other has "EMISSION", no S...& spacing
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Also the boldness of the font, spacing between letters (see IDLE SPECIFICATIONS), the color of the red (fire-engine vs garnet), and the degree signs.
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Question, Biddle's sticker has timing of 8 degrees on the 350 and 370 HP engines. When did Chevrolet change these specs? When they did this will give us a date change between the two stickers. Maybe??
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The originals were flexo printed on vinyl, they were most likely printed on a a continuous roll, 2 color with die cutter and then rewound on rolls -
When left on the roll, when being used a sharp edge pulling the tab will automatically release the edge of the sticker.
Impact printing - direct plate to substrate
These show the "squish" where the rubber plate hits and then squishes out ink then when drawing back the surface tension of the ink causes it to draw back and leave slightly bulging and heavy on the edges
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KcW0gIw4fazsxJVL3O37GAVF5R1y-VMxpVHQfQ-f5wMIZcZAhXQvHxEJDsw8mPDXSKVUxdnRnz5BVfjF8tk2g3AhR3fC6f-V9zLyI2pIiqGUoSPX5tExYhIY5yqUdlSti_tieT9xD9BnyTh_4oGxzCj3n512nXb16L_X4Wm4G4rWuJkHh_uUIIPgPZH3snzP-5jpBZQuqnOEqqXUg7_fFm0Qp1Ery6z5Le31ijL26Z1ah9dxGTC8N1_G-eQNoC9MAu3X5Ql3orCWIQcAP8vVmTnflfcRSrYQucC0YR1Hy3vzcniBq9w8JWUIGp1xDMWtWzjRNKmEc0uHBS_L9wfnfpSzSuxKDiy6JLlx2PCspnfwIZktJcsblj_jputYCyy5NyA8x2GHFwNMC042iB2Ev-QgnqQVz2Qbs0flrcIQdLnf86Ukz44kRPJr-TTouCvV2Y0dwXAIpKWZw9WJ9lDayt_swWRInfxqbZq4OoSf3eayajpfUY9uW0sGx3wTIWLhA8oIv6HfV-JKBqpJLpCuNJ4AS59r9qDJbs3oQeaEZiWfbr1X4qp700PPdVsLUVsX75xg=w1195-h896-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pwJ3HI6Rf2EbimDk5fevxmDMct52G8DSHy-ZwX1OIHHeQTxzBhH6a2TRzin-0PloMusC9zPKu8ZpCqd57_YdAfKWjcWLHtQpIfuDehpG5AsC8i_Bmlyq_9L2Cih0gvbUwJI3M8asGH7ajWBVJQIvXEqBnEr3yWNr-hbx6wrFBpZyvMMgn2rIOxA_c2CTdOgSPnRHdX6UILA1GVzFRBmAjKBcIaRD2fVmsGyuUYqeY4AZI7oHbAILsdOrpaEf86TyxaFDPmuhZp5ayQSB6xFW67gXXP_0oDBvhQpH3uRTop2KGJfXGqAUf8qVd1J3BeaGYvX0g7KiGiS294NScs_N-33pQmZPcT0IK0JjhSJ0v0dwFls2ix-y3mFJhdjtkaDdvowuomUUf2Y5yoGTCzPnuGm3qfmxAAgwB8T8noBZYSB2cal0OiG723gn6Y9gTJ2vrScB96eUdfCQmkgiZXBRC8_GbI0acgXSTcAd02wuMgAf37DKh6pln_BSmyyKDSLXTFrs4f4vgofUNj3VnDUSLSEQPrDSESiSCtCOgVo2RC9fmGM0n1GkybIeDLjagv_owh2z=w1195-h896-no)
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The stamping technique James mentioned would apply to the firewall inspection stamps (P,T,L). So many restorations I see have decals and those stampings so carefully applied. Yet, to duplicate the "factory" look one should huredly or slap on the decals and squish the stampings to the point that they mimmic what James illustrates so there is heavier ink on the outline of the letters.
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Exactly...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LLz30NBMOmkxC-q78_5hqchBsbzpgT5MJnda_OdYUiycdhpEW9sDFWP8KgiTu8CJTwkdgGU4C7kaH16YUV3UCG5nLd-beoyqF9N8_bJfH216hptEBOm0KvzNVkW7EvyqllA31zJJ71oUkA217TadJnTwTBNuxwBU98aiI421vFzbi_BIYu5Be1ltyad28bfICxLt8XgVP3u7ayNHG8Q0J-W4HETagsbkYMrptIqoNjnt-dJt0krKNVb7nDln1cP8GftM51gg1LjfWb6gKf0ladTTAtDP6ANKcUUkQZCiydfso2LNdu3S0VBqekYlNfJZ81xue_UDuItITUwXzvxWnZfPsqDd_5DZgf2HNSddh0AeIlgxiO5cjTByKfWX0uf90HGEOFM80qVheLwHiJkKU7iJ3NeIj6Ih9Ap8Fu0gPHfSM4zl61sAxWW0Cy9y9Wj1JdKAQP9xdkuUKuVozsuSeYqH9-A1uPjvYMmXevQc85SULyCIcJVDfFbyZK-bZa_k3GRiJucywBwl0uHaiS6-uFmO5pLB8TN6w_SpbSsWq_6yK61EgHR0jAyUCfTdoko1otEC=w1280-h854-no)