CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: A.Cassaro on April 06, 2013, 10:21:52 AM
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All
I am in need of help. I have a 69 Z/28 with one original wheel the spare. It looks to be dated K-1-9 5/4. My car is a 06A build Z/28. I found these wheels on EBAY and they are being represented as orginal 4/21 wheels. Could any one look at these wheels and tell me if they are real. I am a little skeptical just at the fact that the current bid is not higher? If they real would it be acceptable for my car to have four wheels with date code 4/21 and one with date code 5/4.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-69-CHEVY-CAMARO-Z28-YH-RALLY-WHEELS-K19-4-21-MATCHED-DATED-SET-VERY-RARE-/271182268846?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D6768188001729896594%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D271182268846%26#ht_137wt_1130
PLease give me some feed back on this.
Thanks
Angelo
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Looks OK Angelo but only one pic of stamping around stem. One has curb rash as he noted but the dates should work well IMO.
He has a reserve and maybe he has run them before but the price might really change in the last few hours/minutes...
Good luck
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Looks OK Angelo but only one pic of stamping around stem. One has curb rash as he noted but the dates should work well IMO.
He has a reserve and maybe he has run them before but the price might really change in the last few hours/minutes...
Good luck
Thanks for your help!
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I'm not sure how you tell, but beware... recently one of the big camaro parts sellers let it slip to me that they have 'restamped' FW wheels to YH wheels; they said the wheels were identical otherwise, although I've always believed there was a difference (else why would Kelsey Hayes have changed the code??).
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There is a slight offset difference between the YH and FW 15" rims, but it is very subtle (about 1/2"), and does not affect tire clearance or brake clearance IMO. I have a set of FW's on my Z11 (YJ's are stored, reserved for show duty w/Goodyears if I ever get to that point), and work/sit right with the 205/50/15's Goodrich T/A's I put on it to drive. Like most RS cars, you have to watch tire size in width and diameter to keep from rubbing the actuator covers, but they work fine and look better to me than the 14" YJ rims in filling up the wheel wells.
When you install the derbys and rings, you'd be hard pressed to see a visual difference between the two. Off the car like these are, look at the center sections position compared to the rim on a known set of YH's and you can probably see the difference. As with everything nowdays, some people will try anything to make a buck, including restamping rims.
Regards,
Steve
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I'm not sure how you tell, but beware... recently one of the big camaro parts sellers let it slip to me that they have 'restamped' FW wheels to YH wheels; they said the wheels were identical otherwise, although I've always believed there was a difference (else why would Kelsey Hayes have changed the code??).
They are Different! FW wheels have the smaller cooling slots with the perfectly round ends, original YH wheels have a wider cooling slot and the ends are a irregular shape, not round. This works until about 9/69 when YH wheels went to the smaller cooling slot. This is easy to see if you compare wheels side by side. In looking at the wheels they appear to be genuine. IMO.
I would be VERY concerned that the wheels are straight, dont forget they are 45 yrs old. I have restored quite a few YH wheels, and allmost ALL of them needed to be straightened/machined on the backs to make them run straight. Also the seller doesn't say whether REAL paint with hardener was used instead of just rattle can paint. The Stamp looks OK IMO, ask him to post or send you picture of ALL the stamps as well as close ups of ALL the cooling slots straight on.
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so what you are saying is that very late '69 Z28 wheels and the 1970 Monte Carlo (and maybe full size chevrolet? wheels, made after 9/69 and into the '1970 calendar year) had different cooling slots which are noticeable, or at least detectable? Are the late '69/70 YH wheels different then only in the minor offset from the later MC FW wheels? I think I have a loose YH and a FW without tires, so I may get them down, clean them up and make some photos and measurements. I Like these discussions that make us a little bit smarter about our favorite cars.. :)
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Here is an ebay link to a pair of supposed 'YH' rims, which to me appear to be very late (after 1969 wheels - one appears to have a '4' yr code). Notice that the year portion of the codes do not show well in the photos, nor does the ad point that out the full code, even in response to a specific question, they only provide 'month' and 'day' code, and ignore the YR code. Regular ebay sellers seem to know all the tricks (to fool people)....?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230955645839&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123
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Here is an ebay link to a pair of supposed 'YH' rims, which to me appear to be very late (after 1969 wheels - one appears to have a '4' yr code). Notice that the year portion of the codes do not show well in the photos, nor does the ad point that out the full code, even in response to a specific question, they only provide 'month' and 'day' code, and ignore the YR code. Regular ebay sellers seem to know all the tricks (to fool people)....?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230955645839&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123
Notice the dates on these 2 Ebay wheels are read from the inside looking to the outer edge of the wheel? Then Notice that the other YH wheels are read from the outside looking in? Also notice that these 2 wheels have smaller width ( not length) cooling slots with round ends on the slots? I would be carefull ! Just Sayin.
The pictures I am posting are of a KNOWN ORIGINAL YH Wheel, notice the irregular corners at the ends of the slots? not round? and also the date is stamped and read from the outside of the wheel looking in? All Original YH wheels I have personally seen have the bigger width slots and irregular ends up till approx. 9/69., and I have lots of original cars and wheels. After 9/69 the slots got smaller, I think YH wheels were the same for Z28 and Monte Carlo after this date! Actually it is quite noticeable in person, I am going to the shop today and will take some more pictures of Original wheels and re post.
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Would it be acceptable for one wheel to be dated 5/4 which is the date on my spare that came with the car and the other four to be dated 4/21 as these wheels are? Or should all the wheels be dated the same day?
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Here is an ebay link to a pair of supposed 'YH' rims, which to me appear to be very late (after 1969 wheels - one appears to have a '4' yr code). Notice that the year portion of the codes do not show well in the photos, nor does the ad point that out the full code, even in response to a specific question, they only provide 'month' and 'day' code, and ignore the YR code. Regular ebay sellers seem to know all the tricks (to fool people)....?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230955645839&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123
Notice the dates on these 2 Ebay wheels are read from the inside looking to the outer edge of the wheel? Then Notice that the other YH wheels are read from the outside looking in? Also notice that these 2 wheels have smaller width ( not length) cooling slots with round ends on the slots? I would be carefull ! Just Sayin.
The pictures I am posting are of a KNOWN ORIGINAL YH Wheel, notice the irregular corners at the ends of the slots? not round? and also the date is stamped and read from the outside of the wheel looking in? All Original YH wheels I have personally seen have the bigger width slots and irregular ends up till approx. 9/69., and I have lots of original cars and wheels. After 9/69 the slots got smaller, I think YH wheels were the same for Z28 and Monte Carlo after this date! Actually it is quite noticeable in person, I am going to the shop today and will take some more pictures of Original wheels and re post.
Smaller FW slot or later issue 9/69 on YH slot
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Great pic's. Is there anyway you could take a tape measure and see what the difference is in the slots? (across and Up/Down) Also how much of a difference is there between slots?
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Would it be acceptable for one wheel to be dated 5/4 which is the date on my spare that came with the car and the other four to be dated 4/21 as these wheels are? Or should all the wheels be dated the same day?
Yes that would be acceptable according to what everyone else has posted for dates in the past. If I remember correctly there are only a couple cars that I heard of that had all 5 wheels match.
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I have a set of 14" YJ wheels, 4 with same date, spare with different date. I'll bet that's almost the norm.
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Great pic's. Is there anyway you could take a tape measure and see what the difference is in the slots? (across and Up/Down) Also how much of a difference is there between slots?
Original YH slots with the irregular corners are 1&1/8" Height Wise, the FW and Later YH wheels from 9/69 on measure 1". The difference is in the corners as I stated, FW and later issue YH wheels the corners are round. Some original YH wheels the corners are EVEN more pronounced like the 1 below. After you look at them it is actually quite easy to see the difference, take a quarter and hold it in the corners and it shows immediately!
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Thanks, Great information. Have you ever compared these to the early "AD" rims?
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Slots on the AD wheels are the same big slots and irregular corners same as original YH wheels.
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I took comparison photos and measurements today between a May '69 YH wheel, and a Sept 76 FW wheel. Basically, everything rszmjt has previously posted about teh differences is correct, wtih the only thing I noted is that I measured the width of FW slot slightly less than 1" (~ 7/8"). The length of the slots in both wheels is approximately 4" and the distance from slot to slot is approximately 3" in both wheels (no difference). The differences are what he described. 1) 180 deg opposed reading of the stamped codes at the air valve, 2) difference in the narrow dimension of the slots (YH larger), and the different stampings inside the wheel.
It should be far easier for all of us to determine wheel type from now on.. :)