Messages

46

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 23, 2014, 07:12:27 PM »

67RS -

No offense taken, and I do appreciate the detail around cost of parts.  Gives me an ideas of what I'm in for if I do decide to bring it back to 100% original.

Chris

47

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 23, 2014, 01:23:28 PM »

67rs -

My whole objective with this car for now would be to go through it, make sure that everything was up to snuff, i.e. brakes, fluids, cooling, etc, polish it up, and drive it for a while.  Yes, it's a little rough around the edges, but it's presentable and driveable as is.  I do NOT want to buy a car, and then take 5 years to restore it before I can drive it.  I'm ok with not having a perfectly restored car right now.

Honestly, the end game for this car is to have a nice original driver.  I do NOT want a trailer queen/garage ornament.  If I end up with a car that's 95% original, I'm fine with it.

Distributor was about as dirty as the rest of the engine and did not look out of place.
Engine had a fan with a clutch - original?  Don't know, but one is there.
Factory dated gears are gone - it would be nice to have them, but I wouldn't have them put back in anyway.  4.56 is too damn low for practical street use IMHO.

Radiator/alternator/MC, etc, I'm ok with not being original.  They're there, they work, and they don't look entirely out of place.  If I decide to go for a concours resto, then I'll worry about it.

Chris

48

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 23, 2014, 01:01:55 PM »

Janobyte -

Glass date codes--carpet ? Seat belts ?

When I was there, I didn't know enough to check the glass dates, but the owner told me that another person looked at the car and told him that the glass was original.  Thus far, he's been as honest as the day is long, so I'd lean toward believing him.

Carpet - original type loop pile, same deal with the glass, didn't know how to check if it's original.  It's all there and in good shape, a bit faded in places.

Seat belts - present and accounted for, don't know if they're original.

As far as ggtsvnv's comment, I WAS originally looking for a big block car, but I was always open to the possibility of a Z28, one just never presented itself.  I really like ALL 1st gen Camaros, and was looking for an original high-performance version of one, be it a big block or a Z28.

It also seems to me that, over the long run, a Z28 will hold/appreciate in value more.  I'm not looking for a car as an investment, but I can't ignore that aspect of purchasing a vehicle.  No one wants to buy a car knowing that it will lose value, the only exception being cars purchased for sentimental reasons, and as far as I know, I was NOT conceived in the back of any type of Camaro, so the sentimental pull for a particular model isn't there.

Chris

49

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 23, 2014, 03:05:51 AM »

Paul -

Solid, but not perfect.  Like I mentioned, bondo behind the rear wheels, inner rear fender lips have some rot where they join the lip of the rear quarter, but only 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch, basically the edge.  Shock supports are rock solid, as is the trunk and floor.  No rust under the fenders that I could see, some light surface rust on the underside of the rear subframe, but again, no holes or even flaking.  Doors appeared to be solid along the bottoms, rockers passed the magnet test, didn't appear to have any bondo in them.

The spare tire direction sticker was peeled off, and I could see the original teal color.  Unique color...I like it.

Chris

50

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 23, 2014, 02:29:45 AM »

Finally home.  Long day.  CT to NC back to CT.  A few additional comments about the car:

Overall appearance is decent, but not great.  Paint is faded and dull.
In addition to the correct production code and partial VIN, the engine also has the correct casting #, 3914678
Owner said that the car does have the correct DF wheels, although the spare is a 14" rim.
Jack is present, although I didn't check for originality
Radiator is not original - it is a 21" core, but it has outlets for cooling lines.  Not surprising given the age of the car.
Rear leafs have 4 leafs, not 5.  From what I understand, that is correct for a Z28(?).
Valve covers ARE original, according to the owner, they were just painted...why he painted chrome I can't say, but he did point to a spot where they were peeling, and yes, it did appear to have chrome under the paint.
Alternator does not appear to be original - # on it is 1100834
Brake pedal DOES have the correct "disc brake" medallion on it
The car DOES have bumper guards
Couldn't find a code on the MC - booster shows evidence of peeling paint for a brake fluid leak, so I'm certain it's been replaced
Rear end code is BW0314G (I THINK it was a 14) with an "E" underneath that - confirms that the rear end was built approx. 2 weeks before the car's production date, and that the car originally had a 4.56 rear end, which is what the owner said.  Now has 3.73s
I would tend to believe that the rear end is original...given that the rear was a 4.56, I'm sure that they used fewer of them, so it was probably built and the sat on a rack for a few weeks because of lower demand.
As far as I could tell (reading with a mirror), the distributor DOES have the correct code 1111467, although I couldn't see that date code
Driver's side seat has a small tear on the bottom cushion, pass side and rear seat are intact and in decent shape.  Carpet is decent, a bit faded, headliner is intact.
Dash is uncut, and has a (according to the owner) a non-original but correct GM am/fm radio
Door panels are presentable, rear panels appear to be a bit bowed, as if the back side was exposed to moisture
The front lower panel of the wheel wells, where the rocker drain plug is located, is solid on both sides.

Last question - from what I understand, the carb is supposed to be a mechanical secondary card, correct?  I recall seeing a vacuum diaphragm, which shouldn't be there...but then again, I didn't closely check out the carb.

Let's see how I feel about it tomorrow morning.

Chris

51

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 22, 2014, 11:19:17 PM »

On my way back fron NC.   The car was an honest, unrestored car with matchi g engine
And tranny numbers.  Rear end code was for March 14 or 15, so that appeqrs to be original too.
Floors and rockers were solid except for the small area shown.  Rear quarters bave some bondo
Behind the wheels but nothing horrible.  Inners need some repair at the edges  but are not bad.
trunk is rock solid. Bottoms of fenders are fine.  Some surface rust on subframe, no rot  
cracking shown in rear quarters is paint.  Comfirmed presence of bondo w magnet.
  Interior is original with some wear.  Smells musty, very dusty.   Dash pad is shot.  Original shifter.  Driveable as is.  84k mi, appears to be original.
Got him to move a little on price but not as much as hoped.

Seriously considering pulling the trigger.   Goi g to sleep on.it

52

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 21, 2014, 09:50:52 PM »

Where is the date code on the distributor?

53

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 21, 2014, 01:22:57 AM »

To all -

Thanks again for the opinions.  Keep them coming.

As far as my plans, I'd like to drive it for a while, maybe a  year or two, enjoy it, then tear it down for a paint and bodywork. I have enough major projects at the moment to keep me busy for the next year or two .

I'm not buying the car as an investment (I'd buy one completely done if that was the case), but I don't want to lose my shirt on it, either.  Most of the cars I've ever had I've either broken even on or made a few thousand dollars on...and yes, I've lost money on a few, too.

I'm confident that I can do some, if not all, of the metal work, and the vast majority of the prep work, so I can probably get it where I want for less than $10K.  I've also successfully handled engine and manual transmission removal/rebuild, suspension and brake rebuilds, so that's not a worry for me.

I've attached a pic of the carb and stamped code.  Buyer got back to me about the distributor.  He said that the # is 1111467, which would make it the correct distributor for the engine.

Janobyte - sorry for being dense, but what are you saying regarding production dates vs engine dates?  04D is last week of April, and a 4/23 engine date would put engine assembly date a week previous, and that would be the same case for the car I'm looking at, engine assembly date on week prior to the car's production date.  Am I correct?

As far as a final price goes, I'll go down with a $1000 cash deposit, with payment in full to follow in 1 day via bank wire transfer, or cash upon pickup, whichever he prefers.  Depending on if/how much I want it, I'll start in the $20s and take it from there.  Hopefully we can meet at a price that works.

Thanks again...

Chris

54

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 20, 2014, 06:40:52 PM »

All -

Thanks for your input.

From the comments, it seems to me that if the numbers on the engine number (along with casting #), transmission, rear, distributor, and alternator setup check out, that would identify it as a Z/28...unless someone decked a proper block, restamped it, and restamped a transmission and rear end, and added all of the Z-28 specific parts.  Correct?

Yes, I wish it had the POP.

My hope was that I could beat him down somewhat on price based on the rust, but if he already had it bid up to $32K on Ebay, he may not go for it.

If the numbers check out, guess I'll have to decide how badly I want the car and take it from there.

If not, I wasted the cost of a commuter flight to NC and a day's worth of my time.

And so it goes....

Chris

55

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 19, 2014, 09:07:53 PM »

As far as rust repair goes, I had a '59 Apache a few years ago.  Cab corners where shot.  Pulled the bed, and carefully cut out the rust.  Ended up mig welding new inner and outer cab corners on both sides.  Used butt-weld panel clamps, drilled out the spot welds along the door post, was super careful about fitment, took my time with the mig, hitting a spot at a time, ground slowly and carefully, and once I was done, you couldn't tell that they were ever replaced, so I'm pretty confident that I can do a set of rockers and a rear quarter patch panel if need be.

Chris

56

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 19, 2014, 09:05:12 PM »

bcmiller - Understood.  I WILL be bringing a magnet with me when I go to check it out.  The rust is a bargaining point for sure, especially in or near the rockers.

Never mentioned this since my first post, but I DID have a '69 RS when I was 17, 327/PG.  Original CT car with TONS of bondo on it, although it looked good when I bought it.  The rockers had some minor bubbling on them, but 2 years later they had grown into holes.  The rockers turned out to be full of leaves and dirt, about a bucketful when I flushed them out, so yeah, I know that rockers can be in issue.  Sold the car a year later and lost a ton of money on it.

Chris

57

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 19, 2014, 07:36:05 PM »

Update:  I misunderstood his message to me.  He does NOT have the POP, but he did say that the car has the original distributor, which from what I understand should be 1111467, and the alternator arm # should end in 814, so those are 2 additional things I can check.

The car does have a 12 bolt posi rear.  He said that it originally had 4.56 gears, but it was switched to 3.73 gears years ago.

I'm going to post a pic of the carb #s as soon as he gets it to me.

Tire rim code MAY be DF, it's kinda hard to tell.

I'm in CT, and CT is a non-title state for cars over 10 years old.  All I have to do is have a VIN check to prove that the claimed VIN matches with the paperwork I'm submitting, and I'm good to go.

I'll provide any updates as I get them.

Chris

58

General Discussion / Re: Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 19, 2014, 04:13:35 PM »

Len -

THANK YOU for resizing and posting the pics for me.  I did a Google search on how to resize, and now know how to do it.

Anyway, what I'm looking for is this:

Based on what you see, is this a real Z/28?
Asking price is $32K.  High?  Low?  Just right?
Seller said that mileage is 75K.
When I go to see it, what specifically should I look for in terms of confirming the car's identity?

Here's what I know about the car, based on what the seller told me.  I have not yet seen the car:

Numbers matching engine, transmission, and rear end - engine numbers pictured, number sequence matches the vin on the paperwork.  Have no pics of the rear or tranny #s
Cowl tag indicates a first week of April production - Pictured
Engine code is correct, MO, and March 29 production date jives with the car's production date - pictured
Owner has the POP, have not seen it.
Carb is coded 4053DZ, have not seen it
Wheels are 15", and coded DE - pictured.  Based on the information here, the wheel code is correct for the car
Glove box sticker has the correct code for the car, code AY, E70x15-4 ply tires, pictured
Power brakes w/front discs.  Seller said he replaced the calipers, but has the old ones in a box, they come with the car
Seller has owned the car for 25+ years, and has registrations going back to 1972.  One of the registrations pictured has "Z28" written on the body style.  I know it's supposed to list "2dr coupe" or something similar, but he said it was filled in with Z28 in 1972
According to the seller, the floors, trunk, and subframe ends are solid and rust free
The quarters, as can be seen, have been worked on, and very likely have some bondo in them.
Car has factory gauges and tach.
I've already been told that 1) the valve covers are wrong, 2) the oil filler cap is wrong 3) smog control is missing (big surprise), and the MC has been replaced

I plan on crawling under the car and checking the #s on the tranny and rear end.

Anything else I should look for?

Thanks once again...

Chris

59

General Discussion / Round 2: Going to see a '68 Z/28 - Need some help w/pics

« on: December 18, 2014, 10:34:10 PM »

Hello!

A few weeks ago, I posted about a '68 SS Camaro that I was looking at, and asked for some opinions as to wether the car was true SS or not.  Net, I found out that I'll never know with 100% certainty without the long-gone original engine and transmission.

While I haven't given up on that car, another one presented itself, and I'm going to see it on Monday.  It's a '68 Z28.

In this case, the car has the original engine, transmission, and rear end, according to the owner, and he sent me pics of the engine # and VIN to prove it.  The engine is an MO coded 302, and the vin stamped on the block matches the car's vin.

I have a lot more information on the car, along with pictures, but, as was the case before, the pics are too big for me to post.

Before I take this thread any further, can anyone resize the pics for me?

Thanks in advance...

Chris
Monroe, CT

60

General Discussion / Re: New guy - Hello! Need opinions - is it a real SS?

« on: December 06, 2014, 10:33:58 PM »

Cook -

Thanks as always for your response.  My reply is below...Please don't take my tone as confrontational or defensive, I'm just trying to say what I'm thinking and why.  Besides, I'm still a noob, and don't want to rattle anyone's cage right out of the gate.

As always, I welcome all responses and opinions, as long as they're polite and on point.

In the first 2 pics that you were kind enough to resize and post for me (thanks again), I see a metal strap on the PS motor mount that's held down by the rear motor mount bolt, which would be consistent with the gas line hold-down for a big block L78 car, based on pics from other  members cars', and that's why I posted.  I don't know what else that strap would be for other than a fuel line.

I realize that without the original engine and/or transmission, or some other type of factory documentation with the VIN on it you cannot make an absolutely definitive ID.  What I am trying to at this point is to check as many boxes as possible that would ID the car as a true BB SS, and at this point, the car has passed all the tests except for the hood springs.

If someone disagrees, please school me, but it would seem that the likelihood of someone going through and making ALL of the changes listed necessary to ID the car as a SS BB would be unlikely.  I think it's unlikely not only because the cost and aggravation necessary to make all those changes, but also because auction description states that the seller had owned the car for 26 years.  With an '08 sale date, that would put that owner's purchase of the car at 1982.  While Camaros have always been desirable, this car would have been maybe a $4 - $6K car in '82, and it doesn't make sense that someone would go through all that cost and aggravation for a $4 - $6K car.  The engine/transmission are NOT recent, so it doesnt appear to me as if someone dolled up a plain jane Camaro recently to make sale.

Anyone agree or disagree?

Thank you!

Chris