Assessing value of this car.

[hpaddict]

Let’s say this is a real x77. I’m  having trouble assessing the value of this car.   It has a really clean paint job and body work .  But the engine and trans are missing. 

Wondering what some of you value this car at ? Not what you would pay but what you think the car is worth based on what you see in the ad. 

50k?  How far off am I ?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/d/san-andreas-1969-camaro-28-x77-code/7697596591.html

[william]

Based on the trunk floor, very solid car. Body tag checks out for a VIN in the range N627xxx-N636xxx. Similar to a bud's '68 that sold on BAT for $53k.

Don't buy it with the intention of restoring it. Only needs some interior and engine bay detailing. It's a street machine, enjoy as is.

[David K]

I see an engine that you say is missing. …

[Sauron327]

I see an engine that you say is missing. …

Missing the original engine and trannsmission as stated in the ad.
Looks like a solid car for the money. Pay a shop like mine to do body and paint. Now add the extras and you'd be above that price.

[David K]

The “Real Z/28” means nothing and carrys no extra value for the car because the original engine and trans are gone. It’s now just a 69 Camaro that’s been slightly modified, so you price accordingly to similar ones on the market. Provided it passes the sniff, drive, and acceptable body inspection, $50k should easily leave room to negotiate. Regardless, if you can get the car on a lift, pay the shop for a thorough and underside inspection….. do your due diligence.

[hpaddict]

I see an engine that you say is missing. …

Missing the original engine and trannsmission as stated in the ad.
Looks like a solid car for the money. Pay a shop like mine to do body and paint. Now add the extras and you'd be above that price.

Where are you located? I'm always in need of a good body/paint shop.

[70L34]

I disagree that a NOM Z/28 has no additional value due to the non original engine. The market says otherwise.

[lynnbilodeau]

Agree.  Obviously not as valuable as one with original engine and trans.  Still a premium over an SS 350.

[Kelley W King]

A real Z28 will also be worth more than plain camaro even with non original drivetrain. COPO and Zl1 cars are out of site and hardly any of them have the original stuff. My Z and my SS both are missing the original engine, I search the orphans often.

[Sauron327]

Missing the original engine and trannsmission as stated in the ad.
Looks like a solid car for the money. Pay a shop like mine to do body and paint. Now add the extras and you'd be above that price.

Where are you located? I'm always in need of a good body/paint shop.

Be best to PM me. Thanks.

[Sauron327]

My friend has our deceased friend's real 10/10 '69Z without the original motor. He's been offered good money for it with the wrong motor. Not for sale.

[MO]

Like anything else; the more desirable the item, the higher the premium.

[RikerZ28]

I also have a 69 X33 without the original motor. It has in it now a 69 427/425 L72. I am always looking in the orphan section for it's missing engine, but like most they probably put the rod through the block 50 years ago. If I was able to find the original block purchase it I don't think I would install it. I can't tell you how much I enjoy this car driving it and tinkering. As for the value, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay.               

[Jonesy]

Im not sure you could get the seller to budge that much off the $65K asking price. It certainly is still a real Z. I agree on the $50K value the way it sits.
I dont even get that arguement at all, that its no longer a real Z because its missing the original engine. Just any other Camaro? I say nope.
It certainly affects the value to me, but its still a Z28.
So whats a 69 Camaro Pace Car without the original engine? No longer a Pace Car??

[David K]

Jersey, since the original engine and transmission are gone, what still makes it a real Z for market value? IMHO, it was a Z when final assembly was completed. And isn't it the engine that makes it a Z?
As said earlier,  what the buyer is willing to pay is all that matters.

[169INDY]

Davey, The Body was still coded and built - constructed with the Content for the Desirable RPO, Not Just a Motor, Rear, Trans, RPO ID badging, and Special stripes, Suspension, Brakes,  It IS still a Z28 even if the motor is missing, this could be corrected in many ways, Install a 427, Install a CE motor, Find orig motor etc,,,,,,,, which in my book also equates to value. It is my belief the Market will also demand value
In my opinion.

Jimmy

My LOS Z11 is missing the Factory installed Motor & It is Still a Z11,

[bcmiller]

I can't remember the exact number but is seems like JM said a NOM would knock the value down 30 percent compared to if it had the original engine.

[camaronut]

Well if it were me, I’d offer maybe $50k (tops) then make it a real z again with a real DZ engine ($$$$$) and M22 trans —— if I were to keep it for myself.  I wouldn’t mess with numbers… just be up front about it.  It would have that Z feel again. 

[David K]

My point is simply this. If the car in the link below was built as a Z from the factory,  is it still a marketed as a Z?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-chevrolet-camaro-338/

[Jonesy]

If it has x33 or x77 still on the factory installed cowl tag, its was born a Z28. I guess I dont see it any other way.
The more components its missing, the less the value. A bare body x33 or x77 will bring more than a x11 body IMO.
If a Z11 pace car is missing its engine, its still a Z11 Pace car.
If an X66 Yenko Camaro is missing its engine, its Still a Yenko as they have the list of VIN to verify it.

To say its not, makes no sense to me.



The BaT example is an X11

[David K]

Jonesy, we can agree to disagree on this. But an X11 could also have been built as a COPO. So could this BAT car be marketed as such?
For those who are interested in the X code nomenclature, here is the link.
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#XnnCodes

[schlepcar]

 I know it’s an older post but I have to satisfy my curiosity. If the car is an original Z it is definitely worth more. My logic would be if the original driveline were missing deduct at least 30 percent. If that were the only parts missing that would make sense. One could easily put a stock non numbers driveline back into it. The problem is usually the non number driveline is gone…the factory,tach,gauges,radio,rear axle(supposedly still there),wheels,correct under hood items…..etc….that is where the 30 percent can easily make 50-60 percent off the value. I would have to think it is worth more as an original Z after comparing what a complete Z is worth compared to a complete X11 car. Of course my opinion is based on the sellers story that it is a Z and it is also what appears to be a rust free car.

[Jonesy]

X33 and X77 were definitive Z28 production codes. Therefore they are Z28's
Z11 was only applied to Convertible pace car, therefore its an Indy Pace Car Convertible.

X11 is a style trim code. Many different models could have this. So its harder to define "what is was originally"

If an LA built Z28 with completely legible tank sticker showing proper codes designating it was bulit as a Z28, its a z28 even if its missing its original engine.

Totally my opinion. Im done

[hpaddict]

Jonesy, those are pretty much my thoughts as well. 

A previous poster mentioned it, but it appears J.M. has made comments regarding missing engines knocking down value about 30%.   I would say that is a fair analysis.

Let’s say, a ZL1 goes for $1,000, 000, a Z/28 for $75K, and an SS for $55k.   There is a higher chance xxx  than getting each of those bodies without the original engine for the same price as a 6 cyl body. 


Edited to remove politics. *******

[FRANKTHECRANK]

The “Real Z/28” means nothing and carrys no extra value for the car because the original engine and trans are gone.

I disagree that a NOM Z/28 has no additional value due to the non original engine. The market says otherwise.

I agree. You can't erase the history of a car. It was still sold originally as a Z28. Non-original engine Z28s are still considered part of that total Z28s sold from the factory. Sure, it has less value than one with the original engine, but it's worth a lot more than a base Camaro in similar condition.....especially ones that come with some documentation.

[bcmiller]

Removed one reply and edited out political opinion.

I have my political opinions too but I try to keep them out of this forum. Rules are rules.

[hpaddict]

Removed one reply and edited out political opinion.

I have my political opinions too but I try to keep them out of this forum. Rules are rules.

Is this listed in Forum Guidelines? I would like to review what other forms of speech are prohibited on this site. 

I simply posted a CONTRAST/COMPARISON. 

[bcmiller]

Removed one reply and edited out political opinion.

I have my political opinions too but I try to keep them out of this forum. Rules are rules.

Is this listed in Forum Guidelines? I would like to review what other forms of speech are prohibited on this site. 

I simply posted a CONTRAST/COMPARISON. 

Let me find it.

[bcmiller]

You agreed to this when you registered with the forum.

[KurtS]

I completely support Bryon on this one. I also was going to edit out that comment.
This forum has maintained a civil tone for literally decades. This is due to members refraining from posting inflammatory comments. It's not uncommon for forums to ban one or two people a month. Just look at facebook to see where we could be. It's been years since we've needed to ban someone.

> I would like to review what other forms of speech are prohibited on this site.
Rich wrote this in a forum post almost 20 years ago and it addresses your concerns concisely.
"....please be aware that this is not a democratic forum (in the dictionary sense of the word).  You have no inherent right to post here - you post at the whim and discretion of the CRG....."

We moderate with a very light touch IMO, but we do moderate.

Kurt
CRG Coordinator

[David K]

Yes indeed. Keep your political opinion out of my hobby and off my forum. Stay classy folks.

[hpaddict]

I completely support Bryon on this one. I also was going to edit out that comment.
This forum has maintained a civil tone for literally decades. This is due to members refraining from posting inflammatory comments. It's not uncommon for forums to ban one or two people a month. Just look at facebook to see where we could be. It's been years since we've needed to ban someone.

> I would like to review what other forms of speech are prohibited on this site.
Rich wrote this in a forum post almost 20 years ago and it addresses your concerns concisely.
"....please be aware that this is not a democratic forum (in the dictionary sense of the word).  You have no inherent right to post here - you post at the whim and discretion of the CRG....."

We moderate with a very light touch IMO, but we do moderate.

Kurt
CRG Coordinator

There is a trade off.  Facebook is worth billions.  Your site probably needs donations to survive.  Its all about how you handle things.   

That said I do appreciate the hard work put in to the documentation of the Camaros.  You do a good job at that.   I may even return to help out the site w/a donation.   Take it easy for now. 

[David K]

Facebook may be worth billions, but this site is literally priceless with help and information not available anywhere else.

[DuWayne Ladner]

Just want to add a kudo to David K! Kinda wish CRG would have been around in the early 70’s as I would not have had any problems finding for sure the all important paper work I need to know for sure what I have in my 69’ SS L78. 50+ years owned. CRG and the Forums is the best thing I’ve come across in my recent restoration of my car. Thanks.

[68 Ragtop]

Just want to add a kudo to David K! Kinda wish CRG would have been around in the early 70’s as I would not have had any problems finding for sure the all important paper work I need to know for sure what I have in my 69’ SS L78. 50+ years owned. CRG and the Forums is the best thing I’ve come across in my recent restoration of my car. Thanks.

Actually in the 70's Chevrolet had all the documentation, but no one wanted it. Then they threw it away.

I wish I would have bought $1 of bitcoin when it was introduced. Just one dollars' worth, and you could have all the Camaro's you wanted today.

[maroman]

Al had not yet invented the internet in the '70's.

[KurtS]

That said I do appreciate the hard work put in to the documentation of the Camaros.  You do a good job at that.   I may even return to help out the site w/a donation.   Take it easy for now. 

My post was to explain why we moderate like we do. Hopefully you'll stay around and continue to participate in the discussions.

[X66]

This Camaro is a Z in my opinion because that is how it was built at the factory. A Z28. I would love to own this Camaro because it is a Z. I would drop a 302 in it if I had it. If I didn't I would drop in a big block. Either way I would drive and enjoy it. Of course I would love to own an original Z if I could but I still consider this one a Z28

[schlepcar]

Yes it is probably a Z and worth what a non numbers Z is worth. The same way a SS chevelle is worth more than a 307 Malibu. I like to see people getting what their stuff is worth if and when they decide to sell it. Saying that Bitcoin was, is, or will be a good idea is more of a political statement than the one that got deleted. I think it is very difficult to have a conversation about what anything is worth in a capitalistic society without being a little light hearted about it. I also understand the whole silliness of being offended by two party system jokes so I can see why moderators try to keep the peace. I was thinking about selling my car this year, but after seeing what some things like Bitcoin are supposedly worth I like to keep a closer eye on things I enjoy. The laws of physics don’t seem to apply to certain tangible goods the way they apply to Monopoly money. We even hear things like “The guy who wants that car died 20 years ago”. Is there any truth to that? Maybe…but I was not alive in 1934 and I can say for sure that a real steel Henry Ford 1934 flathead Ford 3-window coupe is nothing remotely affordable to me at this point in time. That does not mean I wouldn’t want one…be careful what you sell because prices go up and up.

[FRANKTHECRANK]

This Camaro is a Z in my opinion because that is how it was built at the factory. A Z28. I would love to own this Camaro because it is a Z. I would drop a 302 in it if I had it. If I didn't I would drop in a big block. Either way I would drive and enjoy it. Of course I would love to own an original Z if I could but I still consider this one a Z28

I agree, as I stated in post #24.