CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: X33RS on June 13, 2016, 04:21:58 PM
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The owner of the company my father retired from just bought this one....
http://www.bigboystoys-tn.com/inventory/1969-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-rally-sport
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Id be curious to see if its a clone or fake.. Hopefully for the new owner its not.
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I haven't laid eye's on it yet and the add doesn't reveal much. For the price first thing I thought was fake. But I'm told numbers matching, but that means different things to different people :shrug: I'll get a good look at things and see. It gets delivered today.
I do like the color combo.
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I agree, great color. I will be looking forward to your analysis... ;)
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The comfortweave look original in the pics , slightly faded , looks good
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I'm kinda partial to the Dusk Blue. :D A steal if it is what it is ! :)
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I've seen the car, I was paid to go to TN to inspect it, I gave Kurt the details a few years ago. It was for sale for 38,000 a few years ago, the cowl tag is real but none of the real drive train is there and the tag shows blue std.
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Bummer. Good info though.
Now I would really want to see the stamps, to see what they passed off as the real deal though. :)
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Kurt is the one who pointed out the interior code was blue std... after the drivetrain wasn't there we stopped pursuing the car.
The place had a NICE 1970 Boss 302 mustang with original paint (needed some metal replacement) for less than 30k I told the guy to buy it over the Camaro all day long.
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I wouldn't mind a '70 Boss 302 sitting next to my Z28 in my garage.. :)
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So the tag is real, and if original to the car meaning it's a real Z at least. A plus this day and age. I'll have to check it out. Curious now what's there since he was told matching numbers. I'm beginning to wonder if it's an original ZL2, bumper, spoiler and gauge car now, lol.
He may not like to hear it :o
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When I hear 'matching numbers' these days, I almost 'assume' that someone has MADE the engine/trans/etc numbers 'match' to the car re dates, etc...
The term I prefer to hear is 'factory original' or 'factory installed'...ie. unmolested, non-restamped, etc... :) and don't forget that some sellers even LIE about that.. so verify everything.
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I usually look for "date code correct" as the term commonly thrown around for a car that isn't matching numbers, when someone at least went through the trouble and spent the money to find dated parts, and is being honest about it.
When I hear matching numbers I expect the drivetrain to have original stamped serial numbers that match the body. There is really no grey area with that term in my opinion.
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We all know that is what those terms *are supposed* to mean, Larry.. but look at all the cars/engines/trans/etc that we find here that are advertised as 'matching numbers' which are restamps... with all the fakery these days and people just not knowing what they have that they are trying to sell, those terms in an ad are *almost meaningless* unless you can verify it's correct AND original...
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I think us car guys understand the meanings, it's the ill informed that loosely toss the words around, maybe not intentionally creating this dark cloud in the hobby . Then there are others that see there is money to be made. Hopefully in this case it's the former and not the latter.
It's exactly why I stated earlier, that matching numbers mean different things to different people.
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I agree with Gary, when I hear or read "matching numbers" or "original engine" in todays ads, I'm always skeptical of a possible restamp.
To me "period or date correct" is always a more honest description of a replaced drive train and sounds less deceptive.
I've always preferred "The born with"
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Technically speaking if it says matching numbers that would imply that all the numbers match regardless if they were "born with" or not.. Sad when you have to think like a lawyer when it comes to enjoying a hobby..
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Yeah I know what you mean Cook.
I prefer to not be too negative and avoid the skepticism in the hobby and I find things much more enjoyable. I'll approach the car with an open mind and let the facts present themselves. In the end, it is what it is.
He may not even care about stuff like that and just wanted an RS Z to enjoy. Some of us get too wrapped up in numbers to realize that, and I've been guilty. Quite frankly, anymore these days I think if you have a real Z you're already a leg up regardless of the drivetrain, considering the amount of fake cars and tags running around
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Yeah I know what you mean Cook.
I prefer to not be too negative and avoid the skepticism in the hobby and I find things much more enjoyable. I'll approach the car with an open mind and let the facts present themselves. In the end, it is what it is.
He may not even care about stuff like that and just wanted an RS Z to enjoy. Some of us get too wrapped up in numbers to realize that, and I've been guilty. Quite frankly, anymore these days I think if you have a real Z you're already a leg up regardless of the drivetrain, considering the amount of fake cars and tags running around
It just boils down to the dollars and investment. A true and real numbers car opposed to a non original engine car is at least a 30% drop according to JM when I heard him speak on the subject at BJ last winter. As long as one does their homework and not the victim of deceipt and therefore over pay, then it doesn't matter. Just drive and enjoy.
It is a good looking car by the way!!
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I agree. Yep looks good in the pics. I'm curious to see how paint and panel fitment looks. If it's a very nicely done car, and a real Z, then I don't think he got hurt on the price. Considering the cost it takes to properly finish and paint a car that's worth some coin by itself, and a real Z to boot.
Also considering that I see basket case Z's change hands for $30k that need another $60k in restoration sure makes this Z look pretty good at the price, even if the drivetrain isn't original.
If you take that 30% increase/decrease for matching numbers you're only talking $15k at the price he got this one for, which is still cheaper than what I'm seeing for "supposed" matching number Z's out there for sale with asking prices of $70k plus it seems.
In the end I'm thinking he didn't get hurt in the deal, but I really have to lay eye's on it first. I'm told he got the original carb with it, some paperwork etc...which tells me it must be running a different carb and who knows what else. So not really sure what to expect.
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The tag was real never removed, there was muncie peircings etc, cowl hood I do not recall whther the piercings were there. I cannot remember if the engine was a restamp or what but I'm pretty sure trans was from a Kansas built Abody.
This is all from memory of over 2 years ago.
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Thanks James, I'll get a close look at the stuff you pointed out and see if anything has been monkeyed with, and get a better idea of what he was told. Supposed paperwork with the car too but a lot of that floating around now is repop stuff and I'm not sure what he believes it is.