Barrett Jackson

[rocco376]

I assume many of us are watching at least some of the Barrett Jackson auction.  Just watched a 1969 ZL1 go for $450,000?  Even with a replacement engine I would expect a bit more than that.  Any thoughts?

[bcmiller]

Market has softened a bit and will probably continue that trend.  It was pretty high (crazy in my opinion).

[rocco376]

I missed the description on it.  It was a replacement engine I assume?

[bcmiller]

124379N608879

Lot #1332.2 - This 1969 Chevrolet Camaro is #9 of 69 ZL1s produced in 1969. This well-documented car was originally delivered to Fred Gibb Chevrolet of LaHarpe, IL, the dealer that spearheaded the original concept of an all-aluminum engine ZL1 Camaro. Having been through a no-expense-spared restoration, this ZL1 Camaro is "one of the finest in existence," exactly as stated in the accompanying Cuneen Report by Ed Cuneen of COPO Connection. Only the highest-quality components were used in this restoration with a strong emphasis on New Old Stock pieces. A GM factory-assembled body shell was used to correct the extensive body modifications performed during this car's long-term drag-race history. The Cuneen Report that is included with this car features photography and certification of numbered and coded components. Also included with this car is a collection of historical documentation, including the Dealer Shippers copy of the original Window Sticker, the customer's copy of the original Bill of Sale and a copy of the Chevrolet MSO. From the Frank Tiegs Collection.

[rocco376]

Here it is at the 2012 Barrett Jackson sale.  Almost the same price 12 years later.  Interesting.

Lot # 5010 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 Coupe; S/N 124379N608879; Silver/Black vinyl; Older restoration, 2- condition; Hammered Sold at $410,000 plus commission of 10.00%; Final Price $451,000 -- Automatic, power front disc brakes, F70-14 Wide Tread tires, radio delete. Drag raced during its early life, then restored with new body panels to like new condition and displayed since. Documented with a copy of the dealer's shipping report, a copy of the original window sticker, customer's bill of sale copy and report from COPO Connection. The most valuable and fast of all COPOs with the aluminum ZL1 big block, the new body has little effect on this COPO's value. It has never been 'un-valuable', having sold here in 2006 for $486,000 fresh from restoration. Its lack of financial appreciation does, however, mirror the lackluster performance of American Muscle and Pony cars in recent years.

[OrignlZ]

Market has softened a bit and will probably continue that trend.  It was pretty high (crazy in my opinion).

Didn't get to see the COPO cross the block but I did see 2 of the cross ram cars sell. I may be wrong but I feel like these cars were going for north of $200k a few years ago? These only ("only"  ) sold for $165k and $117k respectively. Scrolling the listing I found another that was sold for under $100k. I would think the last one probably had non matching #'s drivetrain to sell for as little as it did, not much to go off of in the description other than the original window sticker. But if it is an actual JL8 car you think that would bring more money. Maybe someone on here can shed some more light on that one.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28-RS-271876
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28-271630
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28-272616

On the softening market, I followed this one on BAT recently and was surprised to see it go for as low as it did. I know it wasn't perfect, but I wasn't expecting to see it sell for $68k.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-174/

[rocco376]

I was also shocked at the $68K BaT result.  Personally, I am not buying a Gen 1 Z/28 without a Jerry M. certification. 

[camaronut]

I watched it until I just couldn't take it anymore.  It took about 45 minutes, and I was done. 

[MO]

You really need to know the back stories to understand the sale prices.

[David K]

$450k for non matching numbers engine. I’m very surprised it went that high. Now the 67 Yenko with the Corvette side pipes- that’s the real deal with documentation all the way.

[68camaroz28]

Then look at lot 1289.1, a 69 Z28 with original drivetrain recently restored that sold for $242,000.

[BillOhio]

The ZL1 being a rebody doesn’t help it. I believe the 67 Yenko had a restamped block also.
One car I liked was an orange rs 69 Z that was one of the few rs cars with the correct wiper motor.  I saw rs cars with the standard motor.  Red flag to me.  The orange car had original interior and endura  bumper. 
I tried to buy the green 68 Z and for the condition the paint was in hated to bid anymore. It was called a survivor but had been painted probably in the 70s. When it was on you tube, there was no grille or inner fenders.  Jerry’s report noted he thought the fenders were changed and I am guessing it had hit something with the parts that had been changed. It had what looked like a poor metal prep job before the paint and I was afraid I would get it in our humidity and it would get worse and need a paint job. It was really nice underneath and had a nice original interior

[maroman]

The ZL1 sounds like Washington's hatchet. I don't get it.

[camaronut]

The ZL1 sounds like Washington's hatchet. I don't get it.

Thank you.

[Hans L]

Market has softened a bit and will probably continue that trend.  It was pretty high (crazy in my opinion).

Didn't get to see the COPO cross the block but I did see 2 of the cross ram cars sell. I may be wrong but I feel like these cars were going for north of $200k a few years ago? These only ("only"  ) sold for $165k and $117k respectively. Scrolling the listing I found another that was sold for under $100k. I would think the last one probably had non matching #'s drivetrain to sell for as little as it did, not much to go off of in the description other than the original window sticker. But if it is an actual JL8 car you think that would bring more money. Maybe someone on here can shed some more light on that one.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28-RS-271876

The '69 Cortez RS Z - from the Description:    "Equipped with a non-OEM Trim Tag"......and still fetched $165K.

[David K]

Yea, I don’t get it.

[Kelley W King]

Photos and videos sometimes lack a lot of things in person inspections show on cars. auction fever and buyers with pockets full of money also can make two different actions have wide price spreads on similar cars.

[camaronut]

$165 for a 69 Z with a repro trim tag.  Just looked at the pictures and I'm just shakin my head.......yer right Dave - I don't get it.

Ok...... $165K for the car - 10% buyers premium - $16.5K - now you have to pay state tax where you live - lets just say 6%...$9.9K......

Your into a car that is suspect at best for a total of $191,400.....PLUS you have to ship it for lets say.... $2K......$193,400.00.

A fool and their money are soon departed.

[OrignlZ]

Yikes! I didn’t even catch the repo trim tag. That is wild to be in that much on a car that as you said is suspect at best. I get that people get caught up in the lights and sounds of the auctions or maybe they just don’t care that it’s not real. But for that amount of money I’d think you would care that it is real. Must be tough having that much money to burn.

[David K]

It's not a repro tag. It's a non OEM tag.

[camaronut]

It's not a repro tag. It's a non OEM tag.

Dave - I'm not arguing but - when I see "Non-OEM " (Original Equipment Manufacturers) tag - to me it means its not the original trim tag to the car - Not originating from GM -- (LA or Norwood).

[uscrichter]

I spent 3 days at the auction and checked out most of the Camaros, I think the ZL1 was about all the money considering that it had a column shifter, rebodied non-original engine! The Z-28 cross ram cars had re-pop manifolds, hoods and carbs, you can buy that set-up for around 6K, I can't see those driving the prices up that much unless it's an unknowing buyer.

[Hans L]

I spent 3 days at the auction and checked out most of the Camaros, I think the ZL1 was about all the money considering that it had a column shifter, rebodied non-original engine! The Z-28 cross ram cars had re-pop manifolds, hoods and carbs, you can buy that set-up for around 6K, I can't see those driving the prices up that much unless it's an unknowing buyer.

In my opinion, the mystic of the Cross Ram Z has significantly diminished with the advent of the reproduction intakes.   Kinda too bad.

Yet this one pulled $242K:  https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28-271570

[bcmiller]

It's not a repro tag. It's a non OEM tag.

If it’s not an original tag, then it’s a reproduction tag.

[David K]

Nut, no argument here, but hearing “non ORM trim tag” could mean it’s a reproduction or from another car. JMHO

[camaronut]

$165 for a 69 Z with a repro trim tag.  Just looked at the pictures and I'm just shakin my head.......yer right Dave - I don't get it.

Ok...... $165K for the car - 10% buyers premium - $16.5K - now you have to pay state tax where you live - lets just say 6%...$9.9K......

Your into a car that is suspect at best for a total of $191,400.....PLUS you have to ship it for lets say.... $2K......$193,400.00.

A fool and their money are soon departed.

Oh yeah - I forgot classic car insurance........who knows what that's gonna be for a car that is suspect and paid $165K.  Would an insurance company cover that?  Not sure if they would.

This is like insuring a diamond ring - lab-grown diamond vs a real diamond........think about it.

[bcmiller]

Nut, no argument here, but hearing “non ORM trim tag” could mean it’s a reproduction or from another car. JMHO

Nut?

[boomer632]

Nut, no argument here, but hearing “non ORM trim tag” could mean it’s a reproduction or from another car. JMHO

Nut?

Hey Byron.. Thats Dave K West Coast lingo for Camaronut..   

[camaronut]

Yeah - I'm a nut.

[Dave69x33]

I just reviewed the Camaros links posted on the '69 Camaros that sold at B-J Scottsdale. Could not help myself considering the hammer prices!

The Dusk Blue Z28 Lot #1023.1 that sold for $117K looked very nice based on the pictures. Restoration accuracy must not have been top of mind for the buyer as I quickly found numerous mistakes.  All were correctable but it goes to show some folks don't care about the details and throw down big money.  The entire auction process has become very interesting and there are many factors that lead to sale prices, some which are ego driven.  For most of us CRG members and current 1st Gen Camaro owners, we value authenticity and restoration accuracy...I know that I do which might come to my disadvantage...LOL!

Dave

[schlepcar]

Yikes! I didn’t even catch the repo trim tag. That is wild to be in that much on a car that as you said is suspect at best. I get that people get caught up in the lights and sounds of the auctions or maybe they just don’t care that it’s not real. But for that amount of money I’d think you would care that it is real. Must be tough having that much money to burn.


  I have been to a few and I have to agree that the moment may bring more than it maybe should. It is almost impossible to tell what a car is or isn't with the camera unless you are already familiar with the vehicle. I have also seen cars that are not perfect but far more correct bring more because they are what they are. It seems with all the parts available that we may see more people just building them again. For the money that pieces and parts is bringing you can justify paying someone to build a repop car. i have never had a problem with a project done nicely,but if it does not have most its original stature...its just a story. I like original stuff probably more than most,but could you justify buying one car for the price of ten because it used to be a rare original? There are certainly bragging rights associated with some of these cars but some days it is the buyer and some days the seller. There is not much doubt that selling a ZL-1 at any price is probably the last time you will own it. That is a very interesting camaro.